The Mary Beard Appreciation Society

Yes re tall etc I would see that as part of the same structure where people are judged by appearance, assumptions made about them etc. so it follows from sexism, racism, classism, disablism, appearance-based judgements etc but will affect those groups differently and can't be seen as privilege separate from those -isms iyswim

*finds the idea that biology, as a fact, offensive. I have lost the ability to type. Nargle.

I just... I just don't think I have the energy to give to someone who finds the idea that biologically, as fact, offensive. Speaking strictly from a point of biology, ignoring all the ideas around what 'being a woman' means and how it is constructed and leaving room for discussions around intersex, I'm at a loss. If someone is offended by the truth, then I've got nothing left. It's a viewpoint I can't understand.

But being tall is evidence of masculinity. So rather than tall privilege, it's just a higher level (sorrynotsorry) of male-ness and thus more male privilege.

But how can we say then that women have cis privilege when it's based on on incorrect assumptions about what 'cis' even covers? I am also of the 'gender is not innate' mind, and as such being called cis and accused of having cis privilege is almost nonsensical.

It seems like cis is more about renaming women so that trans is no longer the other. And I understand that desire completely. But if that's the goal, then cis doesn't make sense. Surely the correct terms are biological woman and transwoman?

Hello Mary! I enjoyed your blog piece, sorry you've had so much of a hard time the past few days.

There's an older New Statesman article here which also addresses how misused No Platforming has become. I remember supporting its use against fascists in the early 1990s, but the whole ethos behind it has been horribly distorted since.

I meant to say earlier MB is a Mumsnetter, not sure how regularly she visits but I'm really glad she's seen this thread.

Yesterday I saw the Twitter storm for the first time, where someone pointed out that No Platforming may not be the best way to kill a daft opinion, e.g. when Griffin was on Question Time and looked like the unspeakable tosspot that he is. This was followed by non-gender-specific hysteria about are you accusing us of being like the BNP. Errr. Way to deliberately miss the bloody point. Mary of course was getting it in the neck merely for having retweeted the point about Griffin.

I couldn't be arsed with debating this on Twitter if I were you, Mary, but more power to you. Thank you for being awesome.

Of course the other thing with a "privilege" that might come with thin-ness is that of course it is all bound up with sexist, classist, racist, stereotyping stuff too, so it's difficult to extricate and define really

All typos forgiven, Mary.

oh blimey! that shd read 'but' ... see what state my typing is in

Is that thank from one nut to some others? I'll take that . Hope you're ok, Mary .

really pleased to read this discussion with all its nuances, phew!
sorry is some people thought I gave the trans arguments short shrift in the blog. think that is really because my main worry was the no-platforming debate (which has been brought into prominence by some feminist cases, but is of course not restricted to them) .. and i guess that i had been a bit battered by the extraordinary misquotes of anything i said. when i read that i supported banning transwomen from public loos, i felt pretty sick.

nut thanks all (only just caught up with this thread)

Thanks ArcheryAnnie found that useful.

I know for me, at least, I feel like I've finally come to an understanding that I am biologically a woman, and that shapes who I am, but I do not have to be limited by what I'm told a woman can be and do. So then when someone comes on and says 'oh, but you're CIS' it feels like suddenly I'm back to being told exactly what a woman is and can do, and should be.
This

I can see what 'cisgender' means, but the idea of 'cisprivilege' I find odd, for reasons other posters have mentioned. Yes, I had the comfort of growing up in a body which more-or-less fitted who I felt myself to be, but I also had a lot of shit as a teenager for being a female who 'walked like a man' (long legs, long stride, fast walk... that was all), who didn't conform to the 'look', who couldn't arsed to waste hours of her life trying to conform to said 'look', who was 'too clever'. Stating the obvious, there is a whole social set-up which is there to ensure that women, even if they feel happy with having a female body, do not feel happy with how that body looks, or with the responses that body receives, or with the attitudes you get for inhabiting that body. And it's pretty shitty, really, for someone who has grown up as biologically male to come along and tell us what a dead easy time we've had of it.

Because of course, it's dead easy to walk home from the bus stop in the dark, fend off leering drunks as you head past a pub, deal with a boss who is a sneaky underhand misogynist, and so on.