Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

I love my washing machine. It's the only "female" thing in the house that belongs to me. I think DH would wash monthly if left to his own devices, he has that hard ear wax / no BO thing. But I love washing. All other house work I try to ignore; between the cleaner and DH they sort it out.

I stepped away from the tread about the fired DH. The DW is all about standing by her man but not only did he not tell her for two months while she refurbished the house, he also got fired and is being coy about why and not consulting a solicitor. Apparently none of this is his fault and she must be supportive because he is feeling bad.

It would be a deal breaker for me. The complete lack of trust and partnership would be an end to it. But then I can't imagine DH doing anything remotely like that. He would be down the local grocery store and stacking shelves in less than 24 hours.

I was also very tempted to suggest that the OP get a job and let her DH take care of the kids but suspected I would get a flaming for my lack of compassion.

God we need the washing machine. It's a 9 kger, yet we seem to still be able to produce 1 load of washing a day... DP is a 6footer, so the clothes are big, and DS1/2 do tend to get stuff down them, but still, it's ridiculous.

plus we have hard floors, so sweeping isn't too bad, and I find running the microfibre mop thing round positively satisfying.

I can go a couple of weeks without using the washing machine, but then I tend to do 2 or 3 loads all at once, and if I didn't have the wm, I'd have to do at least undies by hand by that point. I prefer not to walk on a gritty floor, either, but I can go longer than 2 weeks.

Someone's DH was fired two months ago. He didn't tell the OP. Instead he pretended to go to work, and let the family continue to spend money on expensive things like theatre tickets, meals out and redecorating the house.

This is not an unknown thing though, is it? Didn't one of the characters in the Full Monty do that "going to work" thing each day, even though he didn't? (The one who ended up dieing in the Best Marigold Hotel.) And I'd heard of it before then. I'd be bloody furious if it happened to me though - I'd be annoyed at not being told about being sacked (was it a fair dismissal? If not, there are limited time frames to claim against it.) And I'd be angry about the money side of things, and not being told. You can deal with things like joblessness and lack of income if you know.

Mind you, I am single, so I don't have to deal with anything like that.

No one's takng my washing machine away . Hoovers over there in the corner, take it if you must.

Still, yes for kids without mothers it would be a problem. I'm currently a bit miffed with a kindergarten for going on about family which is giving my dd an obsession with her grandma (my mother, whom I'd rather keep at a distance). Can imagine worse.

Annie, crikey, that's some bad denial.

MN thread of the day that I find myself unable to wrap my head around. Someone's DH was fired two months ago. He didn't tell the OP. Instead he pretended to go to work, and let the family continue to spend money on expensive things like theatre tickets, meals out and redecorating the house. He finally came clean and wants to put mortgage payments on the OP's credit card.

And here's the bit I can't remotely understand... a very large proportion of the responses are along the lines of "Oh, poor man, he just be so upset".

W. T. A. F?

OK I confess that our lovely cleaner does the dusting and hoovering. But we clean the kitchen and bathroom in between visits. And do the laundry. Which I actually don't mind. Because we don't do the laundry that often.

Now that DS1 has a smart shirt do you think we need to teach him how to iron or how to get the thing out of the washing machine as quickly as possible and hang it up to dry so it doesn't need ironing?

I'd rather do without a vacuum cleaner than a washing machine. However, my viewpoint may reflect the fact that I don't do the vacuuming (the cleaner does), whereas I do do the laundry.

My friend argued that the vacuum cleaner was important, because (at the time) your DH would expect to come home to a clean house every day, and would accept that laundry only happened once per week.

lol, when we can write our names in it, is when the dust gets moved about.

We also concentrate on kitchen and bathroom. The other things don't seem very important.

Washing machine over hoover, definitely. I operate the washing machine, but not the hoover. I like my dust where I can see it.

IIRC Mothering Sunday (as distinct from mother's day today) was a time when people went on pilgrimage to their mother church, so their local Cathedral or main parish church, or sometimes the one they were born near on the 4th Sunday in Lent for the Laetare Sunday services, it was a day of remission from the austerity of Lent and churches were often decorated with flowers. (Not the usual Lenten thing).

It fell out of favour after a while, even though it's in the book of Common Prayer, and then was taken up by some woman in America to celebrate motherhood. Weirdly, some of the traditions have persisted and others haven't. Plus, I don't know anyone outside of a religious house who observes the true Lenten Fast anymore, so remission from it is pointless.

Having also lived in places without electricity or running water, I'd agree that the washing machine is WAY more important than the bloody hoover! There's something really decadent about being able to just throw clothes into a washing machine on visits to people's houses when you've been washing yours in a bloody copper you've had to fill using buckets and then wringing through a lethal mangle.... Hoovering is for people who have the time to do it (or a lack of lackeys who want money to buy guitars)

Mothering Sunday was traditionally the fourth Sunday in Lent. These days in Britain, Mothers' Day is the third Sunday in Lent, as that spreads out the celebrations a bit for the likes of Hallmark. Other countries go for totally different days entirely.

And yes, I know about the rise of domestic appliances and increased expectations of cleanliness, and I think anyone entering my house will realise I mostly don't have high expectations. However, I do prefer to aim for a certain level of hygiene, so I focus more on the kitchen and bathroom than dusting and polishing the bookshelves. But I don't think we can get away from housework entirely, even if I only do the dusting about once a year. (It's nearly coming up to that time, I was thinking only yesterday that it looks a bit thick.) Even I was a bit disgusted when I found the mummified mice skeletons under the sofa, which had clearly been there quite some time... (Haven't had a visiting cat for a while, so shouldn't have a repeat of that.)

Actually, each step forwards in domestic appliances has led to an increase in cleanliness levels. So the work becomes les physical but the expectations rise. The only way to avoid hours of housework is to have low expectations of how often to clean things.

Mothering Sunday was originally for the maids, or anyone working away, to go home to their mother church (and therefore also probably see their mothers). IIRC. Not sure if it was always second Sunday in March, but definitely a Lent / spring thing.

I don't mind it,but some of the poems and cards assume and reinforce only a traditional family dynamic.

Why would that be such a problem?

I can see that being a very big problem for a child in care or otherwise without a mother. I would hope that schools take that into consideration when making children make cards.

If I'm honest I don't get why there needs to be a special day commemorating mothers.

Interesting discussion on whether the invention of the washing machine was more important than that of the vacuum cleaner in terms of freeing women from domestic drudgery.

What was the conclusion? Having spent time in places with no electricity, and having had to prioritise buying of household items very carefully due to lack of funds (and back then, lack of Freecycle or similar), I would always, always go for a washing machine, way above a vacuum. I don't mind sweeping and washing floors by hand. Have admittedly never attempted to remove and beat a fully fitted carpet by hand, but then if one had to do all the cleaning by hand, one wouldn't have fully fitted carpets.

I suspect beating carpets can be quite good for getting out some frustration in a way that hand washing never will be. I am not good at hand washing and detest it when I have to do it, and when I had the opportunity, I ended up paying others to do it when I was travelling. I can scrub a floor by hand though. And I was always fascinated by my great-aunt's mangle. I don't mind using one of those with the washed and still-wet clothes. And I am aware of the safety issues with fingers and so on.

(Yet again, I need to point out I am not actually Victorian.)

I don't object to the idea of there being a special day commemorating mothers. Why would that be such a problem? Guessing it's the forced commemorating of anything (sounds like a death but not sure what other word to use), well for just one day of the year it doesn't hurt to celebrate the people who (in theory) look(ed) after us. I speak as someone with a minimal relationship with their mother.

Oubliette my son's school was the same. I thought the concept of it was what you say.

There are only 17 children in DS's class (private prep school). His teacher knows all the parents, so I suppose there isn't much of a risk. I just find the idea of Mother's Day a bit old-fashioned. Wasn't it about letting your maids have a tiny bit if time off to visit their mothers?

When I was a kid you were expected to go to church as it was a religious event. Sometimes a daffodil was given to kids to hand to their mums. Job done. I think me dad used to get a card and we signed it and handed it over.

Obliette it bothers me that schools do this.

I'm pretty hard-hearted on the "safe spaces for students at uni where certain things can't be discussed because they might once have happened to someone" stuff. Students - you are grown- ups. And privileged ones. Thinking about difficult stuff is part of the deal.

But a class project about giving Mum the best mother's day ever seems very problematic and full of assumptions.

I do recall my son coming home with Mother's Day card at least once. I never raised with the school whether or not they considered if in all classes it was appropriate. The primary classes were small and there was a very high level of parental engagement so possibly they had thought about it and decided it was fine.

I don't remember doing these in my primary in the late 60s early 70s. What I'm not sure about if that was just my class (a small village school and the teachers knew one boy was in long term fostering and that I was brought up by my grandfather as my mother lived and worked abroad with only occasional visits to the UK and therefore avoided it because of the 2 of us) or if the school as a whole didn't bother.

My mum has gone. And my DH is outside, still trying to fix my car. The kids have disappeared upstairs, so I am watching the food channel in peace.