Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

One woman out of 4 panel members + 1 chair = equality? Funny, isn't it? Like we are some sort of minority.

Now the BBC has the one woman per panel show rule, it's even worse I think. They're usually picked on and shouted down and male comics can justify it because she didn't get there on merit like they did.

I've gone off so many chat show/game shows these days - it's mostly men sitting around haw-hawing at each other's jokes. (Perhaps a generalisation, but I used to enjoy QI and Mock the Week and stuff like that but one more haw-hawing and I might throw something at the telly and we can't afford that...)

I was thinking the same thing lonny. She barely got any air time at all.

Massive tangent but is anyone watching Will Smith and Margot Robbie on Granham Norton? Just had a really nice moment with DH going 'why won't they let her speak? And me saying 'men's voices are always louder because they think their experiences are more important.'

I think Ms Robbie is a master of restraint for not slapping the two of them into the middle of next week, but at least DH and I had a good chat

Thanks so much for that enormouse, really interesting and the film Vessel they mentioned looks really interesting too. I'm going to contact my local independent cinema to see if they will put it on (if they haven't planned to already - I would be v impressed if so). I can see that it's available in various online places but it would be great if there were a showing in the cinema too

it's been a busy few days.

Wanted to share this with you all:

sluggerotoole.com/2015/02/26/briefing-about-ni-barriers-to-accessing-abortion-services-launched-by-amnesty-mybodymyrights/

It has the vast majority of the barriers to abortion in NI interview and panel from yesterday. I found Breedagh Hughes and Donagh Stenson extremely moving.

I watched the first episode of Gaudy Night last night. I don't like the PW on telly.

In my personal experience I have been viewed as not-ambitious, not-wanting-to-do-this-or-that-and-they-try-to-accommodate-me-which-is-bloody-nice-of-them-isn't-it, and scary. I'm barely 5'3'' but I'm scary. And what I have actually achieved has not been noted down in correct categories - they were (not any more if I have any breath left in me) put in less "ambitious" categories.

The thing that really gets me is the second thing - the being-nice-to-me part. I would like to be asked whether I wanted to do something or not, not have the script of my life written by some fuckwit.

Disclaimer: I have a stinking cold and hate the world.

So when hr etc see potential in men that they don't see in women it is usually on this final characteristic. This is why when there are senior women in business they are nearly always hr or accountants. On these roles the bias doesn't matter. Hence why woc often when they are more senior are accountants or lawyers ... It's easier to prove your worth. With billable hours, cash saved and real benchmarkable qualification rather than experience which can be ignored.

I cannot remember where I read it but it was an article about women stepping up to senior roles and why they are passed over And they mentioned three categories

• can you do the job
• can you manage the team
• do you know how to add value for the business, understand the drivers and really galvanised on that high level basis.

The article said women are typically mentored on the first two thus getting them to middle management the last item not so much. Not saying there isn't bias at the hire level but the bias starts at level of mentors.

Yes, I've seen that before - men are hired for their potential, women for their experience. I have oodles of potential, there are lots of things I can do well, and I have a bit of experience - but it's so difficult to get more. Yet some male colleagues who aren't actually that good, but are in with the right people...

I've also had interviews with a couple of companies where I thought, I am not desperate enough to work here, somewhere that feels very negative from a female perspective. I'm used to being in the minority but I am not doing it just to make a point.

But that's the problem, isn't i? I don't know any managing director that when asked, wouldn't say that he or she would like a much more diverse organization under them, but when you prod, you realize that they just don't see the unconscious bias, I would even say despite of the training (I'm now thinking of a very prominent CTO at my firm who sweeped in, massacred the diversity statistics in a round of redundancies, and maintains a very macho image up and including the very attractive blonde PA - not that there I is anything wrong with her per se, but it all just adds up to an image that's incredibly off putting to women in his group).

I just can't see how we can keep the pipeline going when the standards are SO different at the level I'm looking at right now (middle management with 15 years of experience). The subtext for me is that apparently, I haven't demonstrated competency at that level yet when the men are being hired based on potential. And usually I'd wondered if maybe the problem is really me, except that research backs me up on this: women have to be constantly proving themselves and are much more often perceived as "not quite ready yet".

I think a lot of companies do care about diversity, if only because research has shown more diverse teams tend to be higher performing, and companies with more women in the c-suite and on the board tend to be more profitable than the ones with fewer or none.

However, it seems to fail to get through to all levels; HR is on board, all directors and higher have had diversity training, are aware of unconscious bias and so on. But a lot of the recruiting, while it goes through HR and so on, the actual decisions and interviewing is done by people lower than director-level, and they haven't had the diversity training (because there hasn't been the budget to roll it out to lower levels yet), and they are worried about "team fit", and so they are more biased towards white middle-class men like them.

Obviously NAMALT (managers, rather than men), but enough of them are that it means there is no pipeline, and there is not a critical mass of women that makes it seem normal to have them there.

Plus, they don't see the diversity problem ("well, you're here, so we do employ women, don't we?") and don't think it's anything to do with them. Whereas I don't know of a single woman working in IT who hasn't at least considered how they are seen as a role model, whether they should be actively involved in STEM promotion and so on - I do sometimes feel bitter that that sort of thing just doesn't even feature on the radar of my male colleagues.

And I'm not sure what to do about it - I'm active in promoting STEM careers to schoolchildren, and I witter on about it enough here, but I don't seem to be able to communicate it to my immediate colleagues, even though they see me going to meetings, organising stuff, trying to get them to sign up and so on. But they still don't seem to get it. Women just don't want to do it. (I don't think I'll be able to get away with doing a course on Feminism 101.) Don't see the problem, doesn't interest them. And it's not just this company, I've seen it at others.

Also, when it comes down to jobs - a lot of our vacancies at the moment are sales and marketing types. You can't employ more women in tech if you're not recruiting in tech departments. Although there do seem to be more jobs around more generally at the moment, so that's not necessarily the story everywhere.

Those WTF post-its are sold by teacher supplies. Think I should get some?

Would these hell, EBear?

I'm smarting with frustration at job hunting at the moment. So many companies paying lip service to diversity and yet I don't even get replies to polite emails to their HR departments

I like the sound of your badges Ebear - I want to put a sign by my desk which says "Fuck off I'm busy" which is probably less acceptable.

V glad I went to that women in tech event. Feeling much more energised and confident about things - just strode fown the concourse at Waterloo, rather than the dejected trudge I managed on the way up. (And always good to hear Stephanie Shirley speak.)

Do you think it would be too provocative to put badges round my desk, which say things like, "pigeonholed", "over-qualified" and "undiscovered talent"?

(The answer is yes, but I am still tempted.)

Thanks for the help - I've explained the slower sound waves = lower sound, faster sound waves = higher sound bit, and left it at that.

I think he was hitting the test tube with a spoon amazed that experiment didn't end up with broken glass all over the lab

I can't believe I'm struggling with a scientific concept a 9 year old is expected to understand. How did I miss that bit of physics I wonder?

Flute is open-ended tube

What buffy said and I was ineptly scrabbling towards

Dinging would correspond with reason 2

It's different ways of making sounds