Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

This morning at playground everyone was very excited and talking at the top of their boys. Cue TA boss shouts "CALM DOWN BOYS" from a few feet away. But it was a mixed group... I dislike addressing people as "boys" or "girls" ...

Now I think I'll source a phone for DS1. He went out on his own yesterday for the first time! And came back with extremely muddy trousers ...

LOL Petula. Which is the unconventionality? A woman sending a man flowers or you sending him flowers which you never did before?

Secondary school choice out - got first choice, though 2nd and 3rd choices would have been fine too. I think some people are a bit disappointed at the lack of stress this is for us. We are very lucky.

I just asked dp what he thought was romantic, and he said when we go for an evening walk in the woodland across the road. Which is nice.

I once ordered flowers to be delivered to him on our anniversary (he was at home). He liked them but was very confused by the unconventionality so I don't think I'll do that again!

What does romance mean to me?

An unexpected gesture that is appreciated by the other person but isn't done with reciprocity in mind.

kickass that's lovely .

kickass As long as he didn't kneel behind a reversing car.

Not sure the French is especially romantic to me. I've been to Paris a few times and it never felt very romantic. TBH I prefer London. French food is OK for a couple of days but one does crave a bit of spice after a while.

It does seem a lot of so-called "romance" is pretty creepy...

I'm not even sure Romeo and Juliet is romantic. Short-lived, yes, but romantic?

I think that real romance is when someone really gets you so that they know what will make you happy. For me, it was DH getting me a little cute dragon ornament. I still really love that dragon, and it reminds me of a very happy moment in my life.

Another time was him going down on one knee in Sainsbury's car park. We'd already told everyone we were engaged, and fixed a date, but there was a delay with the ring. Then I worked closer to the jeweller's so when it came in, I went to pick it up. Because of that we completely missed the typical 'romantic' proposal. Instead, DH spontaneously went down on one knee, partly as a cheesey joke, but also because it was the first opportunity to 'do' a proposal (this was about two months after deciding to get married).

They may well seem stupid to other people (and DH in the middle of a car park probably looked stupid) but they were romantic for us.

For one couple it could be the 'expected' red roses, chocolate and cards, or it could be something completely different, but it will make the other person happy so you do it anyway.

'what does "romance" mean for a feminist? '

Someone taking the trouble to work out what you really like.

uptoapointlordcopper

I had some warped ideas when I was young, I got stalked by a girl when I was at juniors, think she wrote all over my books how she loved me, think I told the teacher, then later another girl was obsessed about ALWAYS being my partner in country dancing as well as tuition group, I remember purposely trying to sit with another girl but stalker went to the teacher and said I'd moved places and was put back with her. In addition to media and society and 'pursuing', 'winning the girl', I ended stalking a girl in secondary, I even phoned her house pretending to be her friend to talk to her, I think she put her mum on and told me to stop calling.

I still feel terrible about it now, my parents never told me anything about this, which I will rectify with mine.

The French?

I do a lecture series on romance. Most medieval romances are rape myths, stories about incest and adultery, anti-immigrant propaganda, or all of the above.

So, really, nothing changes.

(And thanks all for sympathy over creeps.)

On a tangent: so what does "romance" mean for a feminist? Nothing I saw on telly or read in the media that's supposed to be romantic seems very appealing to me. For example, cut roses dry out and then you have to compost them and the garden path is muddy ... (Besides we have a perfectly good rose bush by the muddy garden path.)

So what is romantic?

What an incredibly creepy man. And like Oub said, he has stalker written all over him.

Definitely creepy. Coupled with the LinkedIn/Facebook stuff, it actually sounds like he could be approaching stalker territory (he isn't taking 'no' for an answer, is he?). I'd steer well clear if at all possible.

I would also say, he genuinely wouldn't understand it.

Oh, I know, kickass.

It's moments like that when I am really aware how socialized I am. I have very little issue with all sorts of terrible, bolshy, un-feminine social interaction, but I really do struggle with the 'I'm such a nice guy' types. Bleugh.

Creepy, and you'd be perfectly justified in publicly upbraiding him for it, then telling him you want no further contact. He isn't being polite or respectful, so has just surrendered the right to the same treatment.

Eeek! Creep!

(Actually I also spend a fair amount of time shouting "Creep" at the telly these days....)

Yep. I feel a bit grubby.

Yes, and it's often Victoria Coren looking as if she's too polite to hit whoever's chairing HIGNFY. Grr.

oub, I'm not so sure it's an 'unwritten' rule.

My moan today: ten years ago, I was at university in the town I've just moved back to. The barman in our university bar had a crush on me, and was generally a bit of an odd bloke - he'd get incredibly drunk and stoned, and he was friends with a couple of my mates, so he'd come round and get drunk with us on occasion. I ran into him outside the pub at the end of my street when I moved back here, and he's kept trying to get in touch on facebook and through linkedin. The other day I went to the pub with my housemate and he was there, so I said hi but made it pretty clear with body language that I was talking to her and not up for a chat. So he comes up to us, interrupts, and holds his hand out until I take it, and kisses it.

Which is really mega creepy, isn't it? I think he imagined it was some kind of super-romantic gesture. I really felt wrong-footed by it.

Can I moan about kids clothes please? Just been attempting to get the DC a couple of summery things (holiday in 6 weeks ). Boys section - nearly all of the summer shirts are 100% cotton and the shorts are knee-length with an elasticated waist; girls section - nearly all of the summer shirts are 100% viscose and the shorts are barely an inch longer than crotch level with a non-elasticated waist. Why? Surely girls want to be comfortable and cool just as much as boys? Or is there some unwritten rule that only boys are allowed to be comfortable?

(DD got cotton jersey boys shorts in light grey and navy and has no summer shirts as yet)...