Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

A couple I know chose the name of the place they met. It's a nice name too. Also close to the start of the alphabet, which is apparently an advantage in life.
I am pretty sure I came across a family who had chosen a name like "Newbeginning". All the children had very invented names and the last name was not that close to a real name, much closer to the combination of English words.

I hadn't heard of that, but it would make logical sense for a commune. Whether it worked emotionally for everyone might be another issue I guess.

Have you heard of the Wild communes where all the children were given that surname? (not what you asked but interesting example of arbitrary surname creation)

Do couples ever come up with a name other than one which one of them already had?e.g. Naming after the place you met might work (or not....!!)

A couple of friends got married a while ago and, having decided they wanted the same name, tossed a coin to decide whose name they would have (he ended up changing his). I like that approach, although I remember her saying if she'd ended up changing her name it would have looked really traditional even though it wasn't the automatic decision as it might have been perceived as.

Did you mean 18 months or 18 years, kickass. But yes, I agree totally.

I think there's a slight difference between title and last name.

there are quite a few practical reasons why a family should/could all have the same last name, as well as some emotional ones.

there is no practical need at all for titles, unless you really are a President or Princess and it is relevant to the situation that everyone is reminded of that.

I really would love to see an end to how marriage is done now (not just the ceremony, but the whole joining two lives into one). It would seem far more practical to have some kind of contract which couples can draw up to declare that they are committed, monogamous, and intending to stay that way. They could even decide how long the contract is expected to last for (5 years to forever) then have a big party to celebrate, complete with vows. Any adult becoming a parent would be automatically and without exception tied into an 18 month contract to support that child for 50% of their needs, and they can do this financially and/or time and effort.

Then there would be no need for having titles about whether someone is married or not, or male or female, yet people could still define their relationships and be held accountable for the commitments they take on.

Ruler of the world, that's what I should be.

It's past lunch time and I haven't heard from school - that means he's got there alright, doesn't it?

Oh, UptoaPoint, well done him and you.

I am actually a Mrs who took DH's name. Now, I am perfectly capable of acknowledging patriarchy's role in this, but that wasn't the only reason for my doing it. I wanted to disassociate myself from my rather toxic family of origin. I think, however, that marital namechange should be available to both sexes so that it really does become a choice of the individual. This applies of course to both opposite and same sex marriages.

DS1 went to school on his own this morning.

The pattern of DD's name reminds me of horses. She's Hername [by] Dadsurname [out of] Mumsurname.

I kept my surname (I was surprised when my DSis changed hers - I keep forgetting to use her married surname). However, the DC both have DH's surname, and at the time it never occurred to me to question this. DS (9) does sometimes ask if he can change his surname to match mine though.

According to my mum I decided that I was going to have the title 'Dr' while I was still at primary school because then no one would know whether I was married or not. I think I had feminist tendencies from a very young age . Although my thinking didn't go as far as 'Dr' being a usefully gender-neutral title back then.

I'm keeping my own name when I get married. It's quite nice being able to discuss something feministy with my classes at school, they've all noticed the engagement ring (dp is wearing one too, his is just plainer than mine) and they all want to know what my name will be next school year. When I say "Ms Dragon, same as I've always been" it causes quite a bit of discussions about why some women change their name but more and more women are choosing to keep the names they were born with because we want to keep the identity we've always had and not change ourselves due to "catching a man" or something. Some of them look thoughtful and I think I've got through to them, others ask their follow-up question of "but which name will the baby have?" I'm not pg, and already have 2 children who have both names.

Sadly yes, annie only really practicable as Sikhism is a relatively young religion. Most Sikhs I know are firstname kaur/singh placeofbirthaslastname. As I'm hanging onto Ms and won't be changing my surname if I ever get married my name and title will be the same throughout my life.

I think that Swedish names are now non patronymic and in Iceland people can opt to use a matronymic surname (I.e. helgusson - Helga's son)

Enlightened, indeed, Enormous. But sadly, as the article points out, not entirely practical as the population grows!

I liked that story, drspouse.

It is true, Ebearhug that once we've got the whole Ms/Mrs/Miss thing ironed out, the next step will be to make all that work redundant since it's just as pointless and sexist to have to reveal your sex via your title as it is your marital status!

I lived in a different continent in a very impoverished country at one point and was chatting with two workers on our project about surnames. Worker A (female, younger, able to declare that women had rights, along with children) said that she was not changing her surname on marriage. This is actually also the traditional position - everyone takes their father's first name as their last name on birth and keeps it till death. It is actually known as "father's name" on official forms etc. A bit confusing for foreigners though as I continue to use the last name my father uses it is reasonably straight forward for me to complete that box on the form. If your father does not acknowledge you as his child then your mother either unilaterally gives you his name, or gives you HER father's name.

Worker B (also younger, male, probably had not given any thought to anyone having any kind of rights) said "come on A, get with the times, these days women take their husband's name" - a trend along with e.g. white wedding dresses (and brides being in the same room as their groom when making their vows etc.) that has come from the West.

No, I was able to inform them, these days in other countries women keep the name they've had all their lives very often. It's a newer fashion.

Ha! says worker A. I'm more up to date than you!

I didn't know that ebear. For many years I assumed that most religions were incompatible with feminism (patriarchal, father figure god, dubious practices etc) but some have quite feminist aspects.

Yes.

I like the Quaker practice around titles, too, avoiding honorifics.

Annie www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kaur I'm an atheist but I was raised a sikh and I've been looking back on the religion with a more academic frame of mind.

The Sikh attitude towards surnames actually seems quite enlightened, especially in light of the era.