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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

finally did a feminist thing...

30 replies

IceBeing · 05/02/2015 16:35

...why do I feel so shaky?

I asked a salesperson who was visiting our physics department to take down a overtly sexualized image of a woman that was part of the advertising. I explained we were trying to counteract unhelpful/damaging gender stereotypes in the physics department in order to increase our retention of female students.

He just said, "oh yeah no problem - it isn't my material" and did it.

So why do I feel like I have been in a fight?

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BertieBotts · 18/02/2015 13:29

Oh and random tip for comprehension - stay away from the word "if". If you find yourself wanting to say it, use "when". The German word wenn covers both if and when (even for hypothetical situations) and they tend to be able to follow much more easily if you use a familiar sounding word which essentially means the same to them.

BertieBotts · 18/02/2015 13:28

Oh yes just speak English at them. Most Germans think their English is terrible but it's actually very good. Just speak slowly, use simple sentence structure/words rather than complicated ones if they seem to be struggling and let them have a chance to digest what you've said, if they don't seem to understand.

(English teacher living in Germany here :))

Sexualised images of women are very much more common here than they are in Britain so it's probably even less likely to be noticed and probably will be thought of as a bit of a joke if you suggest it's a problem, but don't be put off - they ought to be polite to you in person, and you might find you speak to somebody who recognises your concerns.

Also, don't do the British thing of playing it down. When we say "I suggest..." to a British person it reads as "Please do..." but to someone from another culture (especially a direct speaking one like Germany) they read it as "This is just an idea, but it's not very important. Don't worry about it." Just be direct, state the problem, request action. Don't quantify with "it would be great if you..." or "I strongly suggest" just say "It would be best if you..." or "Another photo would be more encouraging" or similar.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 18/02/2015 09:52

You could ask them if someone there speaks English - it's likely.
Hallo is Hello in German, then 'Spricht jemand (pronounced yeymand) Englisch' should work.

Or you could just pester them on Twitter.

Or get a German feminist twitterer to pester them.

Thank you for having it removed from your dept anyway. My daughter is in her teens and choosing science subjects and the more welcoming sciences are to girls, the better. She would absolutely have noticed something like that.

IceBeing · 17/02/2015 15:37

I think I am nervous about the german speaking aspect. I mean is okay to phone a company in Germany and just speak English at them?

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Wellwellwell3holesintheground · 17/02/2015 14:27

Want DD to do it? She's very assertive Grin

IceBeing · 17/02/2015 14:12

So I haven't heard back from the company at all....is it worth phoning them or anything?

Maybe I could fake being interested in their product and get their attention that way?

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chocoluvva · 17/02/2015 12:55

Well done from me too. Smile

When I was a young woman I never dared openly speak out about unhelpful representations of/attitudes to women as I thought my motivation for disliking them might be partly due to being jealous of attractive women. Sad Shock

Then to my shame I seemed to forget about the feminist cause while my DC were little and I was a SAHM. The old-fashioned role of SAHM mum suited me (for various reasons). And DD and I enjoyed her 'girly' clothes Hmm .

I regret this now, and regularly tell DD and DS about feminist causes, campaigns etc but it's hard when they are teenagers embarrassed by nearly everything.... So I'm very grateful to you for not only being a thoughtful parent but actively taking a stand.

SkaterGrrrrl · 10/02/2015 16:18

Well done OP.

UptoapointLordCopper · 07/02/2015 19:05

Well done IceBeing!

And well done wellwellwell and DD.

And well done Ice's DD.

Smile
Wellwellwell3holesintheground · 07/02/2015 18:22

I like it too!

NormaStanleyFletcher · 07/02/2015 16:59

I like that anecdote.

IceBeing · 06/02/2015 20:25

wellwell that's just brilliant! See if my parents had started me that young, I wouldn't be finding it so difficult now!

Must remember to get DD on the case when she is a bit older (currently 3yo).

Although I took her swimming a year a go and she got some flak from a 4 yo over the fact she was wearing both blue and pink, and how this made it hard to tell whether she was a girl or not. DD just kept asking her why girls had to wear pink over and over and over and over....till eventually the 4 yo said well maybe they don't...I guess...you aren't! To which DD replied I like octopus. and the conversation moved on.

Sorry that anecdote seemed more interesting in my head.

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ZeroFunDame · 06/02/2015 13:04

Well done!

And surely the shakiness was some sort of precognition of the difference you've made in the world. In addition to the good you've done in your own institution something will have clicked in the salesperson's head. It may take a while but he'll notice things more now.

Wellwellwell3holesintheground · 06/02/2015 13:00

Bathtime - she is ringing McCoys later. She said, 'In the interests of equality, I should ring them too - their 'man crisps' rubbish really annoys me'.

Nestle told her that Yorkies were traditionally seen as a man's chocolate bar Hmm

She is utterly fantastic. Both DS1 and DS2 are feminists too. And if you think her phone skills are good you should see her on a rugby pitch...

BathtimeFunkster · 06/02/2015 12:55

Wellwell - I will be so proud if my DD ever does that.

She sounds fab! :)

I feel hope for the future just hearing about her.

Well done, IceBeing.

Sorry your chair of diversity is such a useless prick.

Wellwellwell3holesintheground · 06/02/2015 12:51

DD (11) rang Nestle yesterday to complain about the 'man fuel for man jobs' slogan on her Yorkie. She used phrases like 'speaking as a feminist' and 'surely we have moved on from this'. Just got to work on her ethical chocolate buying now Grin

Well done OP.

antimatter · 06/02/2015 12:40

Congrats! It gets easier every time you would stand up to sexism.
(speaking from experience Grin )

LightningOnlyStrikesOnce · 06/02/2015 12:33

Congratulations!

IceBeing · 06/02/2015 12:26

I have gone totally militant over night. Just emailed the company to suggest they update their marketing strategy to something less sexist.

I am sure they will be listening keenly Grin

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IceBeing · 05/02/2015 22:15

Definitely not the best person....but no amount of pointing this out has gotten me (or anyone else) anywhere.

Every time he speaks to the department he frames it in terms of "sorry to waste all your time, but we have to report etc....."

anyway...

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EBearhug · 05/02/2015 21:07

Are you going to mention it to the chair of the diversity and equality committee, because it sounds like he might not be the best person for that job?

Well done for asking them to remove it.

IceBeing · 05/02/2015 20:43

What disappointed me was that the chair of our diversity and equality committee was sitting facing the display, didn't apparently notice the problem, didn't make any move to address the issue once I raised it, and when I moved to go and speak to the guy, jumped up out of his chair and practically ran out of the room.

I didn't exactly feel backed up.

It is a shame because (unfortunately) the message is stronger coming from a bloke.

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IceBeing · 05/02/2015 20:40

Oh! I just heard that some students actually noticed it had been removed and were pleased.

At least now somebody knows we are trying to do something, no matter how small, to improve things.

Even though he removed it, I still gave hime a 5 minute lecture on why these things matter... Blush

As you say, I was geared for a fight!

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BuffyBotRebooted · 05/02/2015 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeiTetua · 05/02/2015 20:17

Part of living in a society involves learning not to make public protests against things that most people take for granted--sexism in pretty much every form being a major item. Well, most people would at least give a token agreement that rape is a bad thing, but that's about the limit! So if you step out of line with something that's likely to make you noticed as the non-conformist, it's an adrenaline-pumping incident. But yes, if you do it a few times, you either realise you aren't likely to get bruised, or you get used to bruises.

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