If you have dds, do you think their life will be better than yours (from the pov of being a woman, not in general)?

I hope that you are not put off from contributing here in future Yops

Well, if I did I am sorry. I've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line. Probably best I go to bed.

Yes, I think you are Yops. Sorry.

It was the nature of it really. I didn't say that all was rosy. I didn't claim that you'd never had it so good. I made a comment about one aspect that had changed for the better. The reply was rather accusatory - what about x and y? I never denied x and y. Compare that with kirbymaster's comment at 21:30, and the immediate reply that got. Am I imagining a different tone completely?

I do think life will be better broadly, if only because awareness of women's issues and the all pervasive sexism is starting to filter through. I hope that as dd grows up she will benefit increasinglyz from this.

I do worry about the insidious ness of social media however and the way it seems to be used to bring girls back down. A colleague was telling me about a girl In her ds' class who had naked pictures of her posted on FB by her ex boyfriend in retaliation for her giving him a hard time because he kissed another girl. That level of cruelty was always in teenage relationships I suspect, but it was less public and didn't involve everyone else. And it does always seem to be about undermining girls. That worries me. A lot. It feels like a real step back and a whole new fight we will have to figure out for our daughters.

I don't think that's true at all, Yops. There have been threads posted by several people who aren't regulars on the board, all of which have been responded to in the same way as if Buffy or LRD had posted them. This is in the last week or so.

You made what you believed to be a flippant comment, which wasn't received in that way, and then went on a bit of a rant. It's ok, we've probably all done it, however, most of us didn't grumble on about how only feminists are allowed to be lighthearted here and closed shops. Most of us stopped and listened read and learned a bit first.

It's true though. It's a bit of a closed shop, this place.

Well you're welcome to leave if it doesn't suit you.

The reaction to what someone says depends on who they are, not what they say.

I NC regularly (have done in the past week) people don't "recognize" me. They just "recognize" I'm not out to antagonize.

It's true though. It's a bit of a closed shop, this place. The reaction to what someone says depends on who they are, not what they say.

NO but in the feminism section we do tend to stick to coherent discussions about feminism, and comments from men about how much better women today have it while not actually understanding anything about being a woman today do tend to go down like a lead balloon.

Well, actually you have different types of discussions. Some serious, some lighthearted. Some even humorous. Some theoretical, some practical, some academic, and some a right old mixture of all of those.

And while I can't claim to be a woman, I have raised one for the last 18 years, and not done a bad job. So I know a little about her and her life and her growing up and her hopes and fears. So I am not clueless. It's like how you cannot be a man, but you can comment on men's behaviour, situations, experiences and motivations.

I don't think me repeating stuff that my mum said on our visit to Birmingham Uni is somehow me purporting to be a woman, or pretending that I understand what it is to be one. But my mum thought that my daughter's experience and opportunities were remarkable in comparison to her own, so I mentioned it. It didn't seem that controversial at the time. It still doesn't, to be honest.

Well Yops. I was in my twenties in the 1960s and I can sure as hell tell you that dog-eared copies of Mayfair and Playboy and a few X rated films were the extent of porn in day to day life then for teenagers. It was nothing like the persistent all pervasive pornification of society that our youngsters face today.

There was none of the pressure to grow up before you were barely into double figures age-wise. I can't speak for everyone obviously in the 60s but in my own circle there was nowhere near the pressure from boys that some girls experience today. And any unwanted attention was swiftly dealt with. And when there was unwanted pressure girls did not seem scared then to tell boys to fuck off.

It's the irony that as girls have, supposedly, become more free and autonomous they actually seem to be less able to resist pressures. And sexism in everyday life (as opposed to on telly or in the films) seems even more prevalent than it was. All very counter-intuitive.

Career wise of course it's better for our daughters, much more opportunity. Though there was a lot of satisfaction for me in being a member of the generation that broke down more work barriers in a decade than in the past century (war time apart of course).

:) would be lovely if that was the experience across the board!

Erm not sure really. I just didn't think men did anything that when I was younger. I knew there 'bad' men like rapists or sexual abusers, but didn't really know there was a thing called date rape, or that men you would spend time with would do anything like that until I was well into my 20s.

I do feel heartened that men who engage in grooming etc are starting to fell the force of the law. That is a step forward IMO.

That's brilliant Kirby. Do you think there's anything we can do so that more girls have experiences like that?

As a woman in current society I have had the chance to be in a wonderful equal marriage, have never been coerced in to sex,and was never even on my radar as a young girl, and have been able to pursue various career ambitions. I hope our dds are able to experience the same.

I must remember in future that sarcasm/light-hearted responses are only welcome from feminists. Men must refrain.

NO but in the feminism section we do tend to stick to coherent discussions about feminism, and comments from men about how much better women today have it while not actually understanding anything about being a woman today do tend to go down like a lead balloon.

I think Yonic has summed it up, so I'll leave it at that. I must remember in future that sarcasm/light-hearted responses are only welcome from feminists. Men must refrain.

Porn is prevalent in our society. But it has been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Dirty sketches, the Karma Sutra, end of the pier Victorian 'What the butler saw' machines. It exists in societies outside the UK that have lower incidences of sexual assault than the UK. It is banned in societies where women are treated like animals. So how much is it to blame for current attitudes? I don't know - how would you measure it? What are you measuring anyway?

Every generation thinks it invented sex, and every previous generation thinks the current on is going to the dogs. This is not the first generation to wear make-up, or shave their pubes, or worry about the opposite sex, or feel peer pressure about 'doing it'. I remember reading my friend's 'Jackie' back in the 70's, and girls wondering about how far to go, and how much further their friends have been. And going back to dear mum - she grew up in the swinging sixties. I actually have no idea what she got up to, but the pill because available and attitudes changed hugely in a very short time-span. I think it's a bit naive to assume that she was some chaste maiden to guarded her virtue until my dad showed up.

I don't believe studies like that sardine. There are many lovely teenagers, and saying things like that normalises behaviour that is far from normal.

because she's a free spirit..... which is a touch grim, really.

well, yeah.. I didn't realise that my freeness of spirit was directly related to labial hair and how much I like bum sex.

Anyway I am 100% sure Yops knows exactly what I meant and only added the disturbing mental image their mother to irritate feminists.

I'm the same age as you, OP and have a 4 yo.

I think life will be better for her as a woman in that she is growing up mc not wc (with the concomitant advantages in terms of gender issues) and that she has better role models than I did.

In societal terms - I hope she'll benefit from greater career opportunities and the normalization of women doing certain jobs (eg doctor, computer scientist).

I am very concerned about the pornification of society - it has been creeping up on us since I was at university. I think the things we can do about this are (1) campaign, (2) educate our sons, (3) raise our daughters' self-esteem so that they are better equipped to deal with it, and (4) be a feminist rock for our own dds and for other younger women - in the workplace, and out and about. Our DPs should also keep to the same standards and work on all of these - we need to make sure they are included working to the same agenda.

zero there have been various studies that show coercion is still rife, unfortunately. I'm not surprised really. I think there have been studies that show teens in general lack empathy (it's a developmental thing apparently!) and that + extreme randiness is never going to be a good call. Certainly teens both boys and girls like to push boundaries with all sorts of things and experiment not sure how we could change that. It's that stuff which was always there + children learning how to "do sex" from misogynist porn that is concerning really. In my day they were grateful for a blow job those days have long passed IYSWIM. Expectations are different.