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Original poster

Religion and women

35 replies

RaphaelHuard · 04/02/2015 07:40

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I recently became a convinced feminist and would like to polish my ideas, so that my argument are stronger when i speak on that specific subject.

Here is one of my idea about religion and feminism.

In my opinion, religions that demonised women are the very reason why they are treated as being under men in most, if not all country.

When even your religion convince you that men is above women, it explains alot.

Knowing that we, humans, are easily influenced, you then understand why men really do think they are above women.

In the bible, there is several part where it is displayed. I know they say things like: "He is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man."

So you see, it is women, then men, then god above them all. In that order. Do we really need to structure relations between us? Are we obsess by hierarchy that much? Why do men feel the need to have power over there own specy like that?

All it does is helping divide the two genders. But we are way stronger united.

Without a companion, wether it is a man or woman, we feel weak. With a companion, we feel like we can accomplish anything. It is about time we learn to appreciate the opposite gender.

OP posts:
worldgonecrazy · 04/02/2015 16:27

Feminism was a fertiliser for the growth in many pagan paths, such as the Dianic tradition, and though Wicca was founded by a man, it has been influenced by many strong women. So I don't think it fair to say all religions are this skewed.

Of course, Hinduism has many strong female deities, yet women still have a long way to go to get anything like equality in many cultures with a high Hindu population.

Original poster
RaphaelHuard · 04/02/2015 16:25

to vdbfamily:

"There is only a problem if a man sees his 'headship' as a way of controlling his wife."

Well this is a true problem, as way too many men see there "headship" as a way of controlling there wife. Why would one need to be established as the headship. No need in my opinion. It only help people think they have power over the other.

"the next verse says that the man should love his wife as he loves himself."

There is a difference between loving your partner and having power over a women according to your strongest beliefs in my opinion. Where love is noble, power entitlement is archaic.

Perhaps there is some verse where they say both are equal, i do hope so, as it would be very archaic to believe in something that create a separation between gender.

OP posts:
LightningOnlyStrikesOnce · 04/02/2015 16:23

Translation = what feels like 'reality' today only feels that way because over time, that's how they have ended up. But with a different history, our reality would be different as well.

Well, yeah. If only the pope who was in charge when Charlemagne was looking for power hadn't been a shrewd political player. If only at whatever synod it was the celtic church hadn't accepted rome's supremacy (I had a bit more sympathy for the celtic church). If only Paul hadn't spread Xtianity in the first place and Constantine hadn't picked it up (or whover the actors were). You can play what-if's forever and many historians occasionally do. Tis fun.

(On the other hand - what if the eastern roman empire hadn't survived, albeit so altered, until 1453 (usual reckoning). Potentially no europe.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 04/02/2015 15:17

" There is only a problem if a man sees his 'headship' as a way of controlling his wife."

And there is a huge problem because this does happen, a lot. And whole churches (and religions) justify it and condone it and in some cases, actively encourage it.

grimbletart · 04/02/2015 11:22

Raphael: this is a chicken and egg situation. Does religion justify the placing of men above women or did men use religion to justify placing themselves above women?

For vdb religion works and she is happy with her role. Fair enough.

For others, myself included, I see religion as a tool used to keep women in a particular box, whether or not she feels she fits into that box. I don't, which is why I am not religious.

BuffyBotRebooted · 04/02/2015 09:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YonicScrewdriver · 04/02/2015 08:58

It would be very surprising if, in a world/time where men had more power, religious writings produced largely by men expressed the view that things were the wrong way round, wouldn't it?

BuffyBotRebooted · 04/02/2015 08:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LightningOnlyStrikesOnce · 04/02/2015 08:46

Are you talking about religion in general or the Judaic group?

Religion is just another outgrowth of society: it is infused with social norms just as it imposes them. It is a conservative influence. It does take on a life of it's own and impose outdated values, eg christianity and the west, but ultimately it will change with the rest of us. I wish it would go competely, and a bit faster than that please.

vdbfamily · 04/02/2015 08:22

There are other places in the Bible where it clearly states that all are equal. The way I see it , which is not a popular view these days, is that it is about roles, not about power or importance. At work,I do not consider my line manager to be a more important/better person than me, she has a role, at work, that involves managing me though. The Bible suggests that in a marriage, the man is 'head'. That is not an assumed position.It only works if the wife puts him in that place. If the wife does not agree then it is pointless. I have been married for 12 years and although we are a partnership,if there was a major issue we completely disagreed on,my husband would have the final say. In 12 years,it has only happened once as I wanted to baptise our babies and he wanted them to decide as adults whether to be baptised. He had the final say and I accepted that graciously. He does not lord it over me and I am not a doormat.We are a team. There is only a problem if a man sees his 'headship' as a way of controlling his wife. In the Bible,where it says a woman should submit to her husband, the next verse says that the man should love his wife as he loves himself. You cannot take one verse without the other and you cannot make sense of either if you are not a Christian as it is based on the relationship of the Trinity where although God is one being, Jesus was 'subject' to Gods will. I am not sure that I wrote any of that very clearly but all I can say is that it works for us and I feel no sense of oppression.