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Original poster

Academics - WTF is going on?

86 replies

FloraFox · 02/02/2015 22:09

www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/feb/02/goldsmiths-comedian-kate-smurthwaite-free-speech-show-feminist-campaigners

What fresh hell is this? Members of the feminist society at Goldsmith threatened to picket this feminist comedian because they disagree with her views in prostitution. So the SU cancelled the show.

See also the article that's linked about universities going mad banning things.

What's going on?

OP posts:
Original poster
FloraFox · 03/02/2015 10:36

you have a very different definition of safe space

I think you'll find that this is a common definition for the specific term "safe space".

OP posts:
BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 10:29

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DadWasHere · 03/02/2015 10:21

Ahhh, thank you almond, NOW I get it, you have a very different definition of safe space. So, let me see if I get this right, they planned a physical picket to protest 'safe space' issues and by doing so created a security issue that the performer warned the university of. But the performer was subsequently told it was NOT a security issue that killed her show but (effectively) its content. Then the student body issued a statement that security concerns caused the cancellation. Is that accurate?

almondcakes · 03/02/2015 09:51

Dadwashere, there are two issues the university was discussing - security and safe spaces. Safe spaces is part of equal opps and refers to mental safe space. That is the standard meaning of safe space and is lots of policy guidelines, including Goldsmiths.

BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 09:50

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Original poster
FloraFox · 03/02/2015 09:48

DWH the reason for the pickets and protesting was fear that she might breach the safe space policy. My response above was to schoolclosed who said: "Hence worrying that a feminist lefty comedian might breach their safe space policy."

In the quotes you've selected above, the first and third refer to risk of protest and picketing and don't refer to safe space. The second quote:

"Then I was asked if I had picket lines outside gigs before. I said no. Then I was told it was due to a likelihood of a breach of Goldsmiths’ ‘safe space policy’."

it's clear the picketing was due to the likelihood of a breach of the safe space policy i.e. there was a perceived likelihood of Kate Smurthwaite breaching the safe space and therefore a picket was organised to protest.

Safe space is not about security or risk of physical hazard.

OP posts:
MehsMum · 03/02/2015 09:34

That's bloody outrageous. The potential pickets clearly don't believe in free speech.

We're back again to 'what do we mean by democracy?' and 'what do we mean by free speech?' This idea that you shouldn't have listen to something you find 'offensive' and that nobody else should be allowed to listen to someone you once found 'offensive' is a damn good way of closing public debate about contentious issues. Not exactly great for the future of democracy.

DadWasHere · 03/02/2015 09:32

Ah DWH, you only read one of the links then.... SHOCK!

The three quotes I reposted came from the guardian link, the cruella link and the student union link.

PetulaGordino · 03/02/2015 09:22

iirc the SU is usually run by students (paid or voluntary), or graduates in their first 1-2 years post university, so would often be viewed as part of the student community i think

Original poster
FloraFox · 03/02/2015 09:19

buffy did you see this article that was linked in the first one?

www.theguardian.com/education/2015/feb/02/free-speech-universities-spiked-ban-sombreros

Do you recognise the suggestion that students are being treated as vulnerable?

I remember some people trying to ban coke and/or Pepsi from campus and that was ages ago. The bans then (including no platforming facists, which I didn't agree with) were not about vulnerable students but an act of political strength. I still didn't agree with them.

The behaviour of various femsocs looks like good old fashioned infighting. Is the "safe space" rationale genuine and, if so, why is it needed? Or is it just a smokescreen for sectarianism?

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 03/02/2015 09:11

it was the comedian they were saying was breaching the (mental) safe space through their interpretation/disagreement with her views

they were planning to picket about the potential breach of the safe space. the picket itself was not a breach of the safe space

PuffinsAreFictitious · 03/02/2015 09:08

Ah DWH, you only read one of the links then.... SHOCK!

PuffinsAreFictitious · 03/02/2015 09:08

It was a free event, for FemSoc and Comedy Society members. Some FemSoc members decided they wanted to no platform KS, but lost the vote, so they decided to tell people they would picket.

The 8 tickets thing is a complete red herring, tickets were being sold to people from outside the 2 societies and the general public, everyone else would just turn up on the day.

The irony is that KS was doing a set on free speech, and she has been no platformed. More and more women are being no platformed for having views that don't fit in with others men even if they aren't there to talk about their "problematic" views. Germaine Greer only just escaped being no platformed in Cambridge last week, probably because she's such a big hitter, but Julie Bindel is regularly not allowed to speak, even if it's about a subject unrelated to trans* issues.

DadWasHere · 03/02/2015 08:59

If you'd read the links Flora put above, you'd know that.

I did read the links:

I thought it was only fair to let the organisers know that I thought there was a risk of a protest or of people coming along to the show with the specific aim of disrupting it or arguing with me.

Then I was asked if I had picket lines outside gigs before. I said no. Then I was told it was due to a likelihood of a breach of Goldsmiths’ ‘safe space policy’.

Despite many complaints from students about the content of Kate’s act in the past we were planning to go ahead with the gig until Kate told me 24 hours before that there was likely to be a picket with lots of students and non students outside the venue.

How did a possible physical protest, warned of by the comedian herself, move into some form of 'mental only' safety space issue you are talking about in this thread?

BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 08:55

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PetulaGordino · 03/02/2015 08:53

how do they think they can get away with saying that due to pickets+low ticket sales they decided to pull the plug? either it was a free event for members of the societies, with sales for non-members, or it wasn't

BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 08:53

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PetulaGordino · 03/02/2015 08:50

sarah ditum:

sarahditum.com/2015/02/03/no-platforming-smurthwaite-unspeakable-females/

BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 08:47

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Original poster
FloraFox · 03/02/2015 08:45

What are you on about sausage? It was free show where they weren't expecting to sell tickets. GU may have claimed this was about ticket sales but since their exchange of messages with Kate S proved otherwise, it was a very stupid thing to do.

Now they come off as not only hostile to feminist speech but also as liars.

Typical woman-blaming nonsense.

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BuffyBotRebooted · 03/02/2015 08:42

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sausageeggbacon11 · 03/02/2015 08:39

Think Goldsmith was clever here not so much the 8 tickets but given that those that were most likely to attend would actually be outside protesting. The comedy society may or may not buy tickets OTD but you would think the feminist society wouldn't be buying tickets so pulling the show was probably a good idea.

And if you block people for expressing a different opinion on twitter you get a world of Unicorns with rainbow farts. That's her choice but to complain after about only getting half the story well no one to blame but herself.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 03/02/2015 08:19

Yes, DWH, the safe space thing isn't about physical space, it's about mental space.

If you'd read the links Flora put above, you'd know that.

scallopsrgreat · 03/02/2015 07:54

I.e. it what she was going to say which would breach the safe space.

scallopsrgreat · 03/02/2015 07:51

I think you are misunderstanding what safe space means in this context Dadwashere. It meant that her routine was allegedly going to breach a 'safe space' (but no evidence for this) for some marginalised groups. They cited sex workers and Muslim women. They felt there were potential issues with security (again, no evidence) but that wasn't the safe space they were talking about.