Encouraging girls to do Physics, Technology, Engineering and Maths. Is it worth it

I didn't do A levels, I did highers, but I found biology way easier than physics as we seem to be taking anecdotal evidence. I also found the maths I did in my degree piss easy compared to the maths required for my actuarial qualification.

I swear to God I don't know or have I met anybody who took an A level physics man or woman.
I can see that fewer girls are taking the subject from info above but can't help thinking its more of a class/ cultural thing.

I was brought up in and have moved several times in several degenerated areas.
My dad was an engineer and considered really clever considering where we lived.
I think its more to do with this than gender tbh, or at least a mix of both.

careers that I have seen girl physicists go into recently, airline pilot, accountancy, nursing, midwifery, pharmacy, biomed, fashion and design, social work, electrical engineering, plumbing, meteorology,

what has changed over the last 20 years is that nursing has become much harder to get into, it used to be something you would go into straight from GCSEs, now scence A level students are competing hard for university places

sorry for wandering off topic almondcakes

Girls should certainly be encouraged to do STEM subjects. I've had a fascinating science-based career. I'm also pretty well paid nowadays. However, physics A-level isn't always essential to having a career in these fields.

I'm not sure that all schools proceed on the basis that Physics is easy and that lots of girls will take it at A-Level. To be entirely honest.

I think there is something going on where you are which is why I'm so interested. What is driving this difference from the national experience?

You will find teacher opinion doesn't come into it at all, target and predicted grades are calculated according to national formula, and physics is judged to be easier than biology.

I was adding my personal experience as an extra confirmation. I have no axe to grind, I am both a biologist and a physicist. I can assure you biology A level is harder. I don't dispute the formula at all, although I do know physics teachers that might.

Caro would be really good to hear what the popular jobs were for your Physics girls, have they changed over the last 20 years or are they much the same?

Your school does sound like an anomoly whether it feels that way to you or not! Certainly it is not usual for large numbers of girls to take Physics at A-Level. There must be something going on with your local area/or something driving that!

Sorry, that was to Caro. I now have to go anyway, but am interested in girls in STEM, so hope lots post on the topic.

Then provide evidence that is the case!

I was OK at degree level until it came to 4-dimensional Schrodinger equation calculations. (I'm not sure physics A-level would have helped with that). These days, I think I'd get stuck around the point in time I needed to do partial integration.

Somewhere there is a literature review of all these different studies of A level subjects for people who really cared to debate it all.

Debating Chemistry vs. Physics vs. Biology is straying off the point.

it is not my personal opinion, almond cake, it is established fact that all school proceed on the basis of.

It was a bit tricky.

I found it a touch challenging once we started trying to calculate stuff in more than 4 dimensions.

The maths on my degree was far far worse. One class everyone except the 2 super-brainy ones just sat there looking entirely perplexed throughout the whole thing

I thought Further Maths was a bit tricky too (back in 1994). Mind you, I also thought that biology was harder than chemistry.

I work in a STEM career. I can't open a trade magazine without hearing about the technical skills shortage at all levels from apprentices to graduates. My own discipline is on the UK immigration shortage occupations list as there are simply not enough in the UK.

IME it starts at primary school with all the crappy pinkification and genderised toys and utter lack of proper careers advice. Science, technology and engineering need women's input, let's face it we are the end users of most of these medicinces, cars, phones, airports, power stations etc. Are teenage girls are put off because they don't want to hang out in an A level class without any friends to gossip to? We seem to have gone backwards from the 1980s.

I'm especially fuming about this today with the news that our fantastic local science and engineering museum is being closed and sold. Thousands of schoolchildren go there every year to get hands on with science Big Bang Fair style - what a waste .

So after that rant, yes we should be concerned both about A level physics but also the bigger context. In industry it's considered a crisis with potential to impact the economy.

It's not only about high pay, but it is about opportunities to be employed at all, have a career there is a demand for and use your potential. The more women come into industry, the more family friendly it will become.

Motorway, 30% have a Physics degree.

Sorry Caronaim, but there are mutliple studies showing otherwise. Your personal opinion as a teacher compared to the personal opinion of other teachers who disagree makes little difference.

And quite apart from the grades students perceive Physics as more difficult, and they are the ones who actually have to study it.

Further maths was a bit tricky IMO.

Well 20 years ago.

(waits for Caro to say it is an easy option these days )

Caronaim, from here:

www.russellgroup.ac.uk/uploads/STEM-briefing.pdf

'The relative level of difficulty of subjects has been analysed by the Centre for Evaluation and Monitoring. The research has found that students with a GCSE B in History, Economics, Geography, English, Sociology and Business Studies average a grade C in those subjects at A-Level; those with a GCSE B in Maths, Computing, German, French, Chemistry, Physics and Biology average a D at A- Level.'

There is a graph below that. The hardest A level subjects in order from most difficult: Chemistry, Physics, Latin, Maths, French, Biology.

Caro

The issue with Physics is that it is effectively an add-on for (Further) Maths.

Some lunatics do try to do it standalone - but the basic formula is that if you find maths easy, Physics will be fine. If you find maths hard, Physics will be hell.

What do the girls who do Physics A-Level go on to as a job in your experience Caronaim? You say you don't recognise the careers mentioned earlier - what about IT, specifically programming, engineering, robotics? Have any of them gone on to astronomy / astrophysics? (That always sounds appealing!).

Beta Really - engineers don't wear overalls - and they're only replaced by 'engineers from India' in the sense of people from the subcontinent being more motivated to educate their kids in secure lucrative careers - not because they are 'cheap'.

As a STEM graduate - I have found my career progression far less competitive than my humanities/arts educated friends. I have been offered opportunities in a wide range of fields - ranging from jobs that actually needed my skills (eg well funded PhDs), jobs that thought that I could be effectively trained up in relevant skills (finance), jobs where I'd need to liaise with technical people (I.e. Management, civil service) - and jobs where they are plain prejudiced towards assuming STEM=megabrain.

I've taught both, physics is significantly easier than biology! I promise you! I know physics teachers that wouldn't agree with that, but the one I'm thinking of are quite big on surrounding their subject with an air of mystery. Most of the biology teachers I know wouldn't care either way, but those of us who have taught both would agree.

I wonder how many children are taught physics GCSE by someone with a physics degree.

I mean the IOP stats as they are very out of line with what you are saying you have seen "on the ground" in the last couple of decades.

So Durham got it wrong?

OK then, Physics is easy, got it

Do you think the other stats are skewed as well then, given your experience?