Encouraging girls to do Physics, Technology, Engineering and Maths. Is it worth it

Science is I thought getting less interest in as a whole I though across both genders. If on top of this females think its not for them then thats a double tragedy.

It will just lead to a an already male industry becoming more so.

As others have mentioned I would think the positive role models, ambassadors. Is there some fault to be laid at careers advisors?

It wouldn't say that all of STEM is lucrative as when I left University over 15yrs ago Aldi were offering double the graduate salary and a car compared to my starting salary in engineering.

Have registered on STEMnet. We shall have to see what happens next!

Which pamphlet did you show her, DWH? And what age is she?

Ok, I said to my daughter: 'I want to show you a pamphlet that was produced to get school age girls interested in Engineering, I would like your opinion on its effectiveness.'

Her response, paraphrased: (looks at first page) Oh fck, oh fck. No, just no. (rambling frustration and negativity deleted) I see what they are trying to do, yea, but the kind of girls attracted to it (the pamphlet) are not going to ever do engineering. It would be better redone for girls more inclined to be interested through the types of hobbies they do. (looks at second page) (groans) They work so hard to put race (equality) into it and right in the middle of the page... white woman caring for poor black children... really?

You're wrong

Some of the stuff encouraging girls into STEM is dire though and would put most girls off - I present:

Wow... that is... black comedy of the highest order. I will show my daughter that and get her opinion. She chose to do physics, advanced math, robotics, programming and IT at school. She will certainly have something to say about it, unless its so offensive to her intelligence she just snorts in derision.

Sorry but cleaning has no real socially perceived value because it's unskilled, dirty work. I can't remember anyone ever referring to refuse collection as being the backbone of society, even though it's a male dominated field. Or road cleaners who mop up piss, shit and puke from our city centres every Sunday morning, after multitudes of men/women get blind drunk Saturday night.

And I don't believe we are pushing girls into stem either, any more than we do with ethnic minorities (something I've also been involved with). The word is encourage or support, which is totally different.

"trying to push a bunch of educated mc girls into stem rather than the arts."

This captures the problem quite nicely. Assuming that girls need to be pushed into STEM, rather than finding ways to counteract all the many many factors pushing them away from STEM.

rationaloptimist123 those engineers wouldn't be generating very much revenue if they were all dying of MRSA if there were no hospital cleaners!

Your post most succinctly demonstrates how little value we place on these essential jobs in our society.

A society can have as many scientists and engineers as it wants but they are of no value without all the 'women's work' that goes on behind the scenes.

The pay gap (because that what this is about) will only diminish when we value the work that is the true backbone of the economy, rather than trying to push a bunch of educated mc girls into stem rather than the arts.

This blog by the woman who runs Young Rewired State (yearly programming event) is excellent on how efforts to get more girls involved can backfire

mulqueeny.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/how-to-put-girls-off-from-all-forms-of-programmingtech-by-emma-der-mulqueeny/

Oh I agree, Waiting. Everything I see which does the "let's make science pink and fluffy and then girls will like it" thing makes me cringe. But then I tell myself that I am not and never was the target audience, so what do I know?

Some of the stuff encouraging girls into STEM is dire though and would put most girls off - I present: www.wes.org.uk/sites/default/files/WESA2Posterv2.pdf

Unclerory

I wasn't really just referring to mc families in my post moreover the children who have never heard of grammar schools, let alone attended one.
There are bright intelligent kids in some of the schools I refer to but they are disadvantaged to begin with. Either peer pressure and/or no encouragement or support from parents, little in the way of careers advice or accessible role models, they don't stand a chance. Immediately it is seen as not for them, and if they show an interest they are met with negative responses.
"What on earth do you want to do that for?' "leave school and get a proper job".

No I'm not in a university (I'm mid 30's) I'm now part time so my job isn't such a big factor in my life anymore so doesn't bother me so much. It was more when I was working full time and doing on call and night shifts that it got to me. I have a LO and one on the way so much better things to focus my attentions on now thankfully :-)

I think a lot of science is about problem-solving, and that can be quite creative. The facts are just the tools of the trade, in the way that a potter may know about different glazes, or a dressmaker knows about working with different fabrics, or an artist knows which colours to mix.

I regret not sticking with my dream as I am more of a creative/technical thinking person whereas science is more fact based.

Are you in a University? Look for jobs in the biotech/pharma industry if you want a more engineering type job.

Just talking from the pov of the lower income areas and their schools for outreach.
There always seem to be a couple from these schools who go into careers in science, engineering, etc.
I'm sure there would be more to reach.
However, I remain convinced its a preserve for those who are strongly encouraged by parents, not necessarily employed in these fields themselves, but at least educated in their worth.

Paul Nurse came from a working class background and said he found Science more accessible than the Humanities at his grammar school because parental input made less of a difference. The Humanities required cultural knowledge that the middle middle class prize. Historically science was more of an even field. Admittedly, if my and my friends are anything to go by, that is no longer true. I'm a biologist working in the pharmaceutical industry and all my friends force feed their children science (as well as theatre/travel/museums/art galleries). We all know it's a good career that is family friendly (for both parents). But at work there is a real mix of social backgrounds, I'm in the NE and a lot of my colleagues were bright kids from stable working class backgrounds, as well as there being a fair smattering of posher folk from all over. I suspect if I went to e.g. an art gallery there would be less of a social mix.

I think women are breaking into STEM subject but physics is the last bastion of male domination in English speaking countries. I'm actually really happy that so many women do maths (40% is high enough that stereotype threat won't apply anymore), I think that is a more useful general subject to study and there would be very few careers that would demand a physics degree but not be happy with a maths degree.

But agree that A levels force specialisation too early, I did Highers in Scotland, I had 7 Highers, all the classic sciences and a few humanities as well, all the bright kids at school would have done a similar mix, we all HAD to do English and Maths at Higher, and at least one Science. And because we do 4 year degrees you are admitted to a faculty rather than a specific degree course so I didn't actually choose my final degree subject until the end of my second year at Uni. I think that flexibility is great and allows you to make a choice based on some real knowledge of the subject as a adult (I made my final degree choice at the age of 20 and the choice between Science and Humanities at 18).

ISRO isn't half female, but does have a much higher proportion of women than in the West, including in senior technical roles. This was that pic that went viral last year: m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-29357472

BeakyMinder

Your theory is fair enough but the main reason why I work with much more French, German, Italian and other non British women is that engineers are not respected in this country. In the rest of Europe an engineering degree is highly esteemed and rightly so.

In France, their top engineering universities are viewed like we view Cambridge or Oxford. If you asked the general public what the top UK universities are for engineering then you'll struggle.

If your theory is true then a significant contributor will naturally be people not wanting to be associated with washing machine repairs etc. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with repairing things but people don't want to undertake one of the most difficult degrees around to be put in the same box as a technician.

As a country, we don't really value STEM subjects enough.

This is spot on and the reason why our STEM industries are highly specialised and the UK has seen a progressive decline in favour of banking etc.

Gender issues are one thing but who really wants to be an engineer when refuse collection and washing machine repairs are carried out by engineers. Engineering is a dirty word so there is no wonder why we have skills shortages.

My state comprehensive school only offered dual award sciences at GCSE (ie no option to take Physics/ Biology/ Chemistry as separate subjects). I was a straight A all rounder, but picked arts A levels as I was advised by the (different) school which I went to for 6th form that I'd struggle with A level sciences without a good GCSE grounding.

Twenty years on, I think a science based career might have suited my personality and skills pretty well but those doors were basically closed to me at 14 due to the limited GCSE options at school. I'm pretty cross about it!