Changes in how rape will be investigated- about time!

I just haven't seen anything anywhere except in dodgy MRA type places where anyone has said being drunk makes you unable to consent.

Being unconscious makes you unable to consent. Unconscious-drunk is a different thing to drunk. Everyone knows that.

Pretending you don't know the difference between drunk and unable to consent drunk is ridiculous. Pretending no man should be expected to know that difference is ridiculous. Pretending that it's hard to know if a woman wants to have sex is ridiculous.

On another note- I like hearing from men on this topic and I do think there are a lot of men with worthwhile things to say about it. But there are a couple here who seem so unable/unwilling to understand, it's just weird.

You say 'everyone stay safe and be thoughtful in our interactions with each others Flic.
Does that just apply to women? Or should men be thoughtful also?
Don't you think, before putting their penis into someone men should be as close to 100% sure as possible that a woman wants it?

You can think what you like Flic. Doesn't make it true.

Yes, oddly, anyone who suggest that men lied to get into hotel rooms where their friend were having sex with a girl who was completely unknown to them and asked their friend if they could have a go up and down the country is probably going to be greeted with a level of consternation.

I know, I know, this is probably your experience, but hey, I prefer consensual sex.

^ ah well, I kind of thought that's what would happen. I think I made some interesting points but they will never be addressed so long as we keep reacting like this.

Thanks for reading, if anyone did. Everyone please stay safe and be thoughtful about our interactions with one another.

Reported.

not Welcome to Mumsnet, rape apologist. Don't get comfy.

And again, a man comes along, posts utter rubbish, deliberately provocative rubbish, and derails another thread about an issue which affects far, far too many women. It happens every time.

Ignore, move on, why do we always take more notice of male voices? It makes me sad and angry in equal measure.

Sure thing, Cailindana. Start a thread about it and I will show how to not be abusive when people post things you disagree with.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. Goodnight everyone!

I think I'll start a thread about it, and then tell everyone how to respond.

No you're right SD. Posters should be able to spout any old nonsense with no comeback as long as it's not 'abusive.'

I worry that men who have children with more than one woman might have mental health problems. I mean there's no real evidence of it, but it's something to think about, don't you reckon SD. It's an important issue to discuss.

Nosy... We Believe You

Self care, first and foremost. Don't let ridiculous twatbadgers into your head.

Scallops. It's almost stereotypical of you to frame a polite request to avoid shouty abusive messages to others as 'oppressing women'.

It's not nothing to do with sexism, or men wanting women to know their place. If anything, do it for the forum rules!

Cailindana. No, I'm not saying you should care about men at all, or for the hypothetical men in the examples earlier posters gave, or anything at all. I don't see how you think I am.

I've just said, 1) It's inaccurate to write off those posters as rape apologists because they may have genuine concerns about wider implications to fundamental rights in justice, and 2) There is an air of hostility on this forum directed at those who disagree with the status quo and this should end.

I'm not expecting you to do anything. But will hope that those who abuse others on this forum will stop because it's childish and immature (note: I've not even specifically cited any individual people other than AWholeLottaNosy's post above).

Sorry, nosy, cross post

for you x

I might wander onto another thread and discuss dads who only have fortnightly access to their children. I might say, oh but there's every chance that dads who only get fortnightly access were abusive in some way, I mean, why else would it happen?
I might then tell you exactly how you're supposed to react to that SD.
Any anger will be met with 'hey don't be abusive, it does happen you know,'

See how you like me having a nasty baseless theoretical discussion about your life.

Night all! Another day, another doodle x

Cailin has explained it much better than me. You are shutting down women's voices and wanting us to behave in a way you see appropriate when we are discussing our experiences and matters that directly affect us.

Enough!

I've had enough of men toddling along and telling women how to think about rape, how to frame their discussions.

Enough of men telling women that they should be fighting this thing over here and not worrying about that thing over there. Especially when that thing over there has happened to almost every single woman I know.

Enough already.

Just report the more outlandish rape myths and move on. In this case, engaging with those who have to bring up the same tired old shit about a subject they know precisely nothing about is harmful to women.

SD, I would prefer not to discuss on PM. However, if you would like to start a thread on In The News, that might be a good place?

SD you're saying to rape victims 'think about how this might affect a small, hypothetical percentage of men'
And when those rape victims react with understandable annoyance you say 'now now that's not right.'
So you're saying we must be concerned about justice for men (not ourselves) and we must not be angry about that?
If that's not 'know your place' what is?