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Original poster

Can someone help me get my head around this?

35 replies

ReallyAngryBeavers · 28/01/2015 17:50

I'm white. I accept white privilege is a thing I benefit all the time from (even when I don't realize it). But I feel really uncomfortable about this particular article

Can a woman telling off a harasser "be privileged"? Does she owe it to him to listen to his "side"? I'm really uncomfortable with it because it seems to be ignoring male privilege in a one on situation and that the men involved have put themselves in the situation they are in.

OP posts:
BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/01/2015 20:34

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Original poster
ReallyAngryBeavers · 28/01/2015 20:15

Not sure why I bolded she. Hmm

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Original poster
ReallyAngryBeavers · 28/01/2015 20:13

I think (apologies if I have it wrong toffee) that toffee is saying when she is unsure if something is really sexist (because everyone says it's "tradition" she imagines it as a race issue to see if she would see it as discrimination.

Not that she understands racial discrimination because she suffers sexism.

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/01/2015 19:53

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ToffeePenny · 28/01/2015 19:48

at 23 I would have been more concerned about racism than sexism

Me too. I'm pretty sure I've only recognised a small % of the racism that exists out there but unlike sexism the bits I've noticed have also been entirely recognised by my peers (again mostly white) and are left in questioned. To that extent, the bits of racism I see seem to be clearer to everyone (including myself) than the bits of sexism I see. I still find myself swapping race for sex if I'm not sure about a potentially sexist situation or statement to help me to decide. e.g.

'If a white person and a black person have children of course the children will take the white person's surname, there is an historic precedent.'
'It's not an issue that the Traveller's club (London posh club) is for white people only, after all black people have their own swimming sessions)'

Perhaps I am so blinded by my privilege that I can't do this the other way so instead on race issues I elect to just shut up and listen to someone who is affected by it and as a default setting, believe them.

I suppose what I'm trying to say badly is that racism cannot trump sexism (just as it can't trump any of the other isms) they each require the same solution - for unaffected people to a) see the problem and then b) stop being dicks. Being affected by one of the isms doesn't give carte Blanche to be a dick in regard to one of the others.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/01/2015 18:57

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grimbletart · 28/01/2015 18:31

Hey, I know! Why don't men just stop harassing women they don't know on the street? That would remove the problem completely, eh?

This.

Original poster
ReallyAngryBeavers · 28/01/2015 18:26

Hey, I know! Why don't men just stop harassing women they don't know on the street? That would remove the problem completely, eh?

That would be a real start, wouldn't it.

But again, women (even those of us with white privilege) should not have to put up with harassment, even if it is from a man who might also be a member of an oppressed group.

See I am not sure if it is me being defensive or not but I felt like the article was saying racism "trumps" sexism, where as I always saw them on kind of par. With women of colour suffering the most.

While I was reading it I noticed the author was quite young and it occurred to me (even as a white woman) at 23 I would have been more concerned about racism than sexism and felt it was more of a pressing issue and that I didn't really "get" feminism properly until I was older and certain expectations regarding my sex became too much. This woman will suffer racism daily but may not have dealt with the gender expectations that older women deal with.

So I did wonder if it was something to do with age or if I was being both a #whitefeminist and a bit ageist. Not sure really.

If I am being really insensitive or totally out of order, please anyone say and I will ask for thread to be deleted. I don't feel like it is my place to tell a WoC how she should feel about feminism/race obviously, I'm just trying to see where she is coming from and if I a missing a big piece of the puzzle.

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/01/2015 18:07

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Original poster
ReallyAngryBeavers · 28/01/2015 17:56

My goal is not to criminalize verbal street harassment, for a few reasons. First, the long history of institutionalized racism in our criminal justice system has not made me confident that laws against street harassmenwould be applied uniformly or fairly. But more importantly, I believe street harassment is fundamentally rooted in belief systems about women, which are more meaningfully eradicated and improved through social change, education, and advocacy.

Even the woman from CAH states that one of the reasons she wouldn't want it criminalised is because it would not be fairly prosecuted. I have no doubt that it is true. But I also don't see why that should mean you don't advocate for it and also for anti racist training of police officers. It just seems like saying "ah well black bad guys will get it worse than white bad guys" so let's just leave women to it. Even though it is disproportionately women of colour who will suffer? Why doesn't that matter just as much?

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