ISIS and women

Phaedra, saying "what a pointless comment" is rude.

re pasting it and saying "I disagree" or even "you are wrong" is considerably less rude.

Don't know what that posted twice.

You sound like a bunch of giggling school girls. The OP raised some valid points most of which were iignord.

Buffy I think your problem is that you don't like women who disagree with you. "Sneering" = not saying "Buffy you are so right."

The giggling is probably to counteract the offhand rudeness.

I might be wrong though.

You do know you sound like a bunch of giggling school girls. The OP raised some valid points most of which were ignored in the expounding of theories.

Crisis of representation in anthropology? Can't find suitably consise link, but in as few words as possible, kind of how 'science' helped colonialism

Historical examples which have nothing to do with the current issue of IS. Or the questions posed by the OP.

Above all else I want it hammered home to the sexists in our own society that sexism leads to ISIS

And religion has nothing to do with it ? This of course ignores the fact a man who is not one of them is equally likely to face torture and death.

Me neither, thank The Powers That Be for that.

i don't think we're disagreeing here MephistophelesApprentice

The 'respect' that ISIS show for their fellow men can be strange at times. They are quite prepared to strap bombs to each other and sacrifice their fellow soldiers in suicide attacks. They are quite prepared to saw the heads off other men, video it, and post it on youtube. Ditto with shootings, throwing men off buildings etc etc.

So I don't think ISIS have respect for men as a class. I suppose their hierarchy might look like muslim men > muslim women > everybody else. And within that third pool, everyone is regarded as less than human, ripe for slaughter.

PetulaGordino

I feel that 'othering' certain behaviours is an appropriate way of reinforcing opposing behaviours in our society. Without a doubt, the current global socialisation allows, to a greater or lesser extent, mens oppression of women. But the key to defeating that, I believe, lies making the holding of oppressive beliefs a thing of shame and isolation. I take a certain degree of satisfaction in responding to (usually unthinking and minor) sexism in my male friends with the "That's a little bit ISIS isn't it?' It works, too - so far 100% success rate in triggering retraction, rethinking and reframing.

Buffy

Don't forget, Buffy's power was essentially demonic in nature. I'll leave any drawing of analogies to your good self.

I meant to add and religion wasn't necessarily the reason why these rapes occurred.

In addition Buffy going back the persecution of Witches - how many Warlocks got dunked! Coming back to the present, I thought a fair number of lesbians ended up in the gas chambers during Hitlers time, coming further forward in the west we were doing a fair bit of unnecessary compulsory sterilisation, and bringing us up to today in our 'secular society' where we still have problems as other have mentioned.

The article I posted shows how women fighting in the region have tried to fit into that system.

Its a war and in war women get the pointy end of the stick generally, no doubt a lot of women got raped in the bosnia, darfur, etc This is not justifying whats going on

i think the opposite MephistophelesApprentice - that it is not inherent in men, it is socialised, and i don't think i implied otherwise. it is a genderised problem - men's oppression of women - and i'm going to name that. i don't believe that men's socialisation in the west is free from misogyny by any means, and i think it is dangerous for men in the west to say "they aren't real men, unlike us", because as ReallyAngryBeavers says, they are very much men and to "other" them like that can risk (note i say risk, not all men are like that) abdicating responsibility or acknowledgement for any sexist behaviour of their own

Buffy

A demonic pact, obvs.

ReallyAngryBeavers

I appreciate your point, especially as the 'real man' concept is one that has been used aggressively against me in the past, but it is still a cultural artefact of significant ongoing potency. I feel that it can be rehabilitated temporarily to reinforce a mental distinction between appropriate and inappropriate behaviours, certainly for the duration of such an extremely deviant phenomena as ISIS.

PetulaGordino

It was my reading of your post that you believed the ISIS treatment of women was as a result of the behaviours of the dominant gender rather than dominant culture. If I was wrong, then I apologise. I wasn't intending to be hostile or argumentative, but I feel strongly that claiming this behaviour as somehow inherent to the male gender regardless of socialisation provides a defence for rapists in our own society who are convinced 'this is just what (biological) men do'.

Lots of derailment going on here rather than discussing the point raised by the OP.

Lots of derailment going on here rather than discussing the point raised by the OP.

I believe the western media focus on the misogyny as a way of inspiring loyalty towards our societies' values from the women within

The western media has reported the insane activities of IS. IS hate every one who isn't like them, men and women. They aren't however raping men or forcing men into marriage.

Would you prefer western media didn't report it?

The world we live in allows men to oppress women, whether they use religion or science to justify that... it kind of doesn't matter. A perfectly secular world would still be a sexist one.

Phaedra have you ever read any psychodynamic theory? Or, in fact, any early psychology? It basically characterised anything "female" as pathological and in need of treatment. And yes, it was to apply to all women. Women were subjected to very cruel treatment and imprisonment for "conditions" such as hysteria, conditions that simply pathologised being female.

Equally, in medicine, women have in the past been subject to very cruel medical practices such as the delivery of babies using "twilight sleep" (only google if you have a strong stomach), symphysiotomy (again only google if not squeamish), the taking away and incinerating of stillborn babies on the understanding that women didn't need to see or hold their own children etc etc. These were practices developed and advocated by men, with no regard to the effect they would have on women.