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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The optional nature of men's lives

411 replies

cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:35

I was talking about this with DH recently and he agreed with much of what I said.

It strikes me that boys and men have very "optional" lives in comparison to girls and women and that this influences their whole approach to life. What I mean is, girls learn pretty early on that their choices will be restricted, that their options will be limited. From only being allowed to wear skirts and then told they mustn't show their knickers (thus removing the option to be active) to suddenly having to deal with periods and curtailing activities due to that, to then contending with the prospect of unwanted pregnancy and thus having restrictions on sexuality to then being told not to walk certain places not to do certain things for fear of being attacked and ultimately being told you "can't have it all" - ie choose work or children.

IMO, women (in general of course, not all) learn very quickly that there are consequences to things, that you can't always have what you want, that sometimes you just have to get on with it and face the fact that everything isn't perfect. I think that influences their approach to so many things in life from housework, to illness, to childrearing. Men on the other hand, always seem to have options open to them and I think that leads to a certain immaturity, a lack of acceptance that sometimes you can't have what you want. I think it has a bearing on how men approach things like fatherhood and the idea that now you don't have any choice but to knuckle down and accept your life is different - so many men seem to want to "opt out" and carry on as if nothing is different, thus leaving women to, as usual, take the hard road.

While I don't think it's right that women often end up carrying the burden I'm not sure it's necessarily a bad thing to have that maturity foisted on you. I think while women do lose out massively in the earlier years, especially when children are young, that maturity and that acceptance stands them in very good stead as they get older and ultimately they reap the rewards. I notice among older friends that women seem to come into their own in their 50s whereas men can't face that their options are now becoming limited and they no longer have the world open to them - hence mid-life crises etc. I think also because men expect options they tend to skirt on the edges of responsibility, never full accepting the hardship of, for example, parenthood, and thus ending up on the fringes as children get older and become true friends and companions. Thus women, who have been the stable guiding force in childhood, mucking in, organising, being the go-to person, reap the rewards of a close relationship with their adult children, whereas men, who focused on work, never really got their hands dirty with parenting, are now coming to retirement and the loss of that source of status but have not really jumped in with both feet in family life and so don't have that either. They are left with very little.

I am not saying the equality that exists is a good thing. What I'm saying I suppose is that while women look on enviously at men continuing their careers and never attending a parents' evening, they might do well to remember that the emotional toil and labour they put into their families is really and truly worth something. Jobs come and go, they give no love or longterm support. But children are for life, and being that person who always knows where the PE kit is is important, is special.

Men are missing out. They just don't realise that until it's too late.

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cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:53

Yes cream but how often is it that the mother doesn't get involved? It does happen, of course, but because society expects mothers to be involved there isn't that option for women to switch off - schools, relatives, friends etc expect them to know the minutiae of their children's lives, whereas men can be called a "good dad" and still hardly know a single detail of their children's lives.

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cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:51

When I talk about "opting out" I don't just mean men who get a woman pregnant and simply walk away I'm talking about a continuum, from that sort of totally uninterested, absent dad up to the dad who works hard, long hours, very invested in his job, adores his kids and is very kind, gentle and loving but who doesn't know the names of his children's teachers, couldn't pick a single one of his children's friends out of a lineup, has no idea what school dinners cost, has never once seen a nativity play. The kind of dad who is a dad in name and intention but not in action. My DH was very much like that, but has changed enormously and the difference it makes is amazing.

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creambun2014 · 24/01/2015 12:51

Obviously if a mother or a father doesnt get involved then they wont have a close relationship with their children when they are older.

OFrabjousDay · 24/01/2015 12:48

Xposts. I know plenty of fathers who opt out.

cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:47

DH and I had a serious issue after our second DC was born, with him opting out as she was such a tough baby. I gave him a swift kick up the arse (not literally) and he has said me doing that, me basically saying "it is tough but you have no option but to do it," has massively improved his relationship with the children, and he is extremely grateful for it.

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OFrabjousDay · 24/01/2015 12:45

It's great that you feel that way creambun, but it's not a typical experience for most women and girls in this country, even less in other countries.

I know what you mean cailindana. I've always made sure DH pitched in, not only to share the burden, but also to make sure he developed a similarly close relationship with our dcs. Of course, it was reliant on DH being willing to make the effort, which he was.

cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:44

Also, cream, if you feel your choices were never curtailed then I would think you see no need for feminism in which case my argument will not speak to you.

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cailindana · 24/01/2015 12:42

I am talking about useless dads, cream, of which there are many. Obviously if a man does muck in and get involved then it's a different story.

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creambun2014 · 24/01/2015 12:42

I work outside the home but still nowhere the pe kit is and 'get my hands dirty'. I think the type of dads you described probably never really wanted a family.

MarshaBrady · 24/01/2015 12:41

I don't recognise your description of a father amongst my friends either.

All of the ones I know are very involved. Ok a couple may work long hours, but outside that they are mucking in.

creambun2014 · 24/01/2015 12:39

I cant say I have faced any of those. Surely it is how you look at situations? Nothing has ever curtailed me from doing what I want either in childhood or adulthood.

Your description of a dad sounds like a useless one.