Who to vote for as a feminist

I should add: I'm not a man, and not a man who uses prostitutes, and not a supporter of the Green position on prostitution. I have been on MN for many years, I haven't been on Feminist threads for a few months, but in the past have been quite a lot. Hence my question. I did study Latin, and was awfully good at it, if that helps at all.

Feminism does tend to discuss "men as a class" and "women as a class", yes.

Is it considered a given in this MN topic that women constitute a class?

Glosswitch has written a good article about Rupert Read.

glosswatch.com/2015/01/24/choosing-between-misogyny-and-feminism-a-practical-guide/

fayyive it may have escaped your notice but women are actually people too. Perhaps if you could let that thought settle in you might realise that all political issues affect women as well as men.

It is the issues that affect women as a class that are feminist issues. Women don't only care about feminist issues but that doesn't mean all issues that women might care about or be affected by are feminist issues.

Breathtaking that this needs to be spelled out. I suppose if you have so little consideration for women, it's not surprising you support prostitution.

I care about animal rights, particularly animal welfare standards in farming.

Those aren't feminist issues either.

Your naivety is utterly breathtaking.

It's still not relevant.

re production if it were legal then it would be grown in legal regulated farms instead of people's homes and attics.

Did the point make a whooshing sound as it went over your head?

Production. Not sale.

Not relevant to the discussion.

No matter how many times you raise it. You want to talk about your version of drugs being a feminist issue? Start a new thread.

Well presumably there are men who use it for medicinal purposes too? Although the first link you posted frankly is unconvincing.

So far as the Colorado link, I don't know enough about it to make much comment but the gist seems to be certain non- gendered crime levels are dropping. If correct, good but how is that a feminist issue?

"The production of cannabis is more problematic. It involves criminality, violence and awfulness."

If it were legal then users would not have to buy it from the black market, reducing the number of street dealers and the associated crime.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-year-after-marijuana-legalisation-in-colorado-everythings-fine-confirm-police-9989723.html

In Colorado impaired driving, property crime, violent crime and [recreational] drug use among young people are reported to have declined since cannabis was legalised just over a year ago.

Feminist issue? What about women who use cannabis to treat them-self or their family for health reasons and get wrong for it from the law?

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/mar/07/ukcrime

www.naturalnews.com/047932_cannabis_oil_medicinal_marijuana_alternative_medicine.html

I do however agree that the legalisation or otherwise of cannabis isn't really relevant to a discussion about how to vote as a feminist.

fayyive is that a feminist issue? I have a view but I don't see how it's relevant in this discussion.

fayyive maybe I just lead a very sheltered life but policies on prostitution and cannabis aren't really a priority for me.

The smoking of cannabis... no problem at all, if people want to suck chemicals into their lungs when they don't have to, that's their choice. Fucks given = 0

The production of cannabis is more problematic. It involves criminality, violence and awfulness. I doubt this would stop even if it were to be legalised, it hasn't stopped people illegally producing cigarettes or alcohol, despite their being legal.

If you could get rid of the attendant problems with the production of cannabis or marijuana, then I would see no dramas with legalising it.

However, Holland, which decriminalised it to an extent has seen a marked rise in the amounts of other drugs being trafficked through it's borders, which has a negative impact on the countries which border it, as well as wider Europe. Unfortunately, it seems that when you decriminalise things, it is taken by criminals to mean carte blanche for all kinds of other criminal behaviour, and not just drugs.

Just out of interest Flora, do you think cannabis should be legal for medical and/or recreational uses?

puffins I agree, it makes no sense. I think it is because the Greens are a mixed bag of ideologies. Some are libertarians and others have more of a class analysis. I don't think they have a clear ideological foundation.

Thanks Phaedra. I do think it's on topic as the OP is "who to vote for as a feminist". It's a shame that the current voice of feminism has to a large extent been portrayed as an "anything goes" libertarian clap trap. There are certainly lots of us around who don't buy into that. I'm heartened that it is changing.

justanotherlurker I read Rupert Read's blogpost when he wrote it two years ago and I thought it was thoughtful and intelligent. It's a shame to see him give up on his principles and give in to political pressure. It's another thing that puts me off the Greens. I don't know what are their core principles.

This has been a really fascinating thread, thank you!

I am voting Green, because I see feminist and environmental issues as very intertwined, especially on an international level as in less developed countries it is likely that women will be impacted most severely by climate change.

As a mother, I also feel that protecting the environment is a kind of minimum requirement that all other policies need to be built on, because without wanting to sound too simplistic, otherwise my children won't have a natural world to support their lives.

I am a Green Party member but last time round voted Conservative because I fell for their 'greenest government ever' spin. This time I will just vote for who I believe in a trust that this is better than trying to strategise. I live in a Conservative area, and we are unlikely to get a Green MP, but I think the more people join the green surge as it is being called, the better.

I can't help but be influenced by the fact that the GP is the only one with a female leader at the moment - and for quite a long time. I am so fed up of seeing leader's summits in the papers with one or two women if that around a huge table of men. Men are often wonderful, but 50% of their wonderfulness would be perfect

Flora we're getting off topic but great post at 19.59.

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/rupert-read-green-party-candidate-apologises-for-offending-transgender-people-9997956.html

I don't think it's fair to dismiss or try to discredit what a prostitute (or any group she happens to be part of) has to say just because she prefers the term "sex worker" over prostitute.

greenparty.org.uk/leaders-blog/2014/11/01/pushing-prostitution-into-the-dark-is-no-way-to-keep-vulnerable-women-and-men-safe/

From this article it is clear the Greens do acknowledge prostitution comes with a risk of violence and other abuse, and they have listened to prostitutes when considering their stance.

But, their thinking makes no sense. It doesn't protect or guarantee anyone's rights or responsibilities. It also, as you say, doesn't name the bloody problem in the prostitution equation.

I might email my local party and see if they can offer any clarification of their views.

Puffins they are proposing regulating the use of commercial premises as brothels by local authority licensing "to ensure protection of those working there and clients from abuse, and protection of the local community from nuisance and abuse" (my emphasis). However they are proposing no regulation of prostitution in residential premises but "subject to the avoidance of nuisance and abuse" whatever that means and no regulation at all of street prostitution, although "wherever possible particular areas should be designated where street prostitutes can work in safety without upsetting local residents and traders".

The policy is founded on an individual rights analysis with no recognition of the inherent exploitation and harm in prostitution, the gendered nature affecting women nor the effect on women in society. They don't even recognise that the harm is suffered by the women in the way they ensure the regulations must also stop the "clients" from abuse.

Phaedra I don't know much about the make-up of Scot-Pep. The use of the words "sex worker" obscures the organisation as that includes pimps as well as cam women and strippers. The stuff I've heard them say has been along the same lines as happy hooker Laura Lee. I also think they are wrong.

Many of the women in prostitution who are vocal about decriminalisation are older women (compared with the bulk of women in prostitution) and some of these want to become pimps (or "managers") themselves, such as the women in the Canadian prostitution case, Bedford. It's not surprising that such women would advocate for decriminalisation of pimping and brothel-keeping.

"Laura Lee spoke at the NI Assembly - she is not from NI, she is from the Republic and now lives in Scotland."

ok I stand corrected on the fact she is from ROI and not NI. It's also worth noting she has over 20 years experience as a prostitute in brothels and as a "call girl" or "escort", and after all those years she still advocates decrim over any other model.

"They say in the policy page that pornography should be permitted, no mention of regulation. How is that consistent with their opposition to page 3. "

Just guessing here but maybe they think there's a time and place for pornography, and a family newspaper isn't one of them?

Flora very interesting post.

Scotpep pushes the same sort of agenda as what appears to be Green policy. I am not suggesting Scotpep is anything other than genuine women not pimps or punters but I still think they are wrong.

www.scot-pep.org.uk/