Feminist Pub 16: where the Bluestockings develop armoured stockings to deal with the thousand paper cuts

Dh used to do all drop offs and one puck up each week. The other days DD went to after care. His work were fine with him getting in lateish but I'm a teacher so had to start on time.

The one eve DH picked up he did dinner and bed. I stayed at work as late as necessary to get everything done for the next week.

Now DD is at the same school as me but DH does one pick up as I go to college for a night class.

I still feel like he doesn't do 50% but he works longer hours and is very amenable to me going out while he stays in. He just doesn't rush around doing housework while I'm in the pub so it's all still there the next morning.

I need a house that can clean itself while I go to the pub.

I hate drop off! I like pick up better because once I've got them then I don't have to switch my head again.

Exactly. In a generally equal relationship it is a good job to share. But it has far too much potential to be a glory job to say it shows a shift in men's attitudes.

Drop off. Start work half an hour later. Finish later - oops too late to cook tea. I bloody bet the stats on pick up are far more one sided.

If people packaged up their kids nicely and get them out of the door I can do drop-offs with one eye shut.

Drop-offs are a piece of cake. Does it include all the preparations beforehand too?

It wasn't a cut off Buffy. It was an age grouping. In older groups, as you'd expect, more women did it.

and thank you

Interesting, so regularly was more than half the time. But it's a very small sample for all the shouting it got. A very different picture in the next age gap. Given the time lag between becoming a parent and school drop off and the 7 years most families will do it for, we could be talking a lot of similarities between the groups. Only had a quick look, but didn't see figures for picking up either.

It just doesn't ring true for me that more dads drop off than mums. More than used to, yes, but not more.

Penguin full report here

In other news, Sophie Heawood in the Guardian put her finger on what annoyed me about the survey this week on dads on the school run:

"On the other hand, it was reported last week that 68% of working fathers under 35 now regularly take their kids to school, as opposed to 61% of working mothers under 35. Which is rather lovely, what progress, etc – except that the school run is a quantifiable task with a beginning and an end, and it’s visible, and you can say you’ve done it – whereas a hundred other parenting tasks that are not so easily defined are still mainly being done by women, and we will never hear about it."

Also, and I am still to find the raw data, but I suspect that 'regularly' includes once a week. So a family where one parent does one morning and the other does four would count in 'regularly' doing the school run. And I bet the figures aren't similar for the end of the day - when picking the kids up at 3 means being responsible for them for 3 hours afterwards as well.

Bah humbug.

I agree that forced birther conveys the reality well, but it can be such a forceful term that it's quite alienating for people. One thing I've noticed, on here and RL, is that, until they've discussed and thought about it, a lot of people see pro-life as meaning that they wouldn't choose abortion for themselves. I've seen threads on here were someone starts out 'pro life' and quite quickly realises that they are someone who is pro-choice but wouldn't choose to terminate themselves.

Anyway, after that long introduction, I tend to describe someone as 'anti legal abortion'. It opens up a conversation about how abortion happens whether it is legal or not. And anti-abortion feels fairly neutral as a term to me, which often takes the conversation further IYSWIM.

I can't really relate to the high flyers thread. But I am finding it interesting that, after five years living with a man, who is in many ways quite a tidy and housework-y man (well, he is now), I know I'm really fussy about things being clean and tidy. I really am.

However, now I'm living with a woman, and I really just don't have that recurring need to bite my tongue about something that's been done/not done. Ok, that's complicated by the fact you have a different relationship with your flatmate than with your partner, and I bet there are things we each do that makes the other slightly , but it's just sooooooo relaxing.

Sorry, that may be a slightly off-beam observation.

Forced birther is a good strong term. But sad.

Obviously, what I meant was that he was angry with the "pro-life" woman.

I must just stop posting when tired!

The term "forced birther" conveys the meaning much better than "pro-life". I've never heard of it before though. >

I'm a bit afronted by being described as having low standards. I think my standards are very high. It's just not about the same things.

I listened to that 'debate' too and wondered why that woman had so little respect for women and bodily autonomy. What I have noticed about these so called pro life types is their attitude to poor women with children: they often want to deny them benefits because having children is a lifestyle choice. Their human rights stand falls apart as soon as the foetus breathes air.

I've not long got home from wok, to be greeted by DH elling me all about the abortion debate on women's hour this morning, and how utterly angry the "pro-choice" woman made him. He said that she had absolutely no respect for the women she was slagging off at all.

I am really quite proud of him and his feminist ally anger.

He now uses the term forced birther instead of pro-life as well.

I have been told that I have high standards - too high. Good enough is good enough.

They don't live up to my standards, and sometimes, I let it be known. I don't expect anything from them that I wouldn't be able to do myself.

What's the thread about high fliers?

I was talking to someone the other day who was saying how women never define themselves that way, and that's why women academics don't make it to professor. As if, you know, if only we went around sounding like giant boastful wankers, we'd eradicate sexism.

I don't know what high fliers are either, but probably what Ebear says. I have been told that I have low standards , so I'm probably not a high flier.