Feminist Pub 16: where the Bluestockings develop armoured stockings to deal with the thousand paper cuts

Mine have to have trainers - no plimsolls will fit!

No, not you.

We've been plimsoll-shopping with DS2. It's like the Goldilocks experience, minus the that's-just-right bit. We still have no shoes. Hmph.

It's not you - I've actually done about 10 minutes work today.

Ooops, I broke the thread.

Nope, not done, further apologies but there's more to be said.

Eiliis, if you had come on here and said "Hey Annie, that was a pretty shitty thing to say about me, and 'bitching' is a really unfeminist term", I would have completely agreed with you and apologised profusely.

But instead, just like last time, you have turned my comments into yet another opportunity to give a masterclass in "How Feminism Should be Done According To EilisLiomoid", using me as the example of How Not to Be A Good Feminist. That's what's rubbing me up the wrong way so badly and that's why I'm so angry with you. If you have something to say to me, just say it to me in plain words. There's no need to keep referring to me in the third person, for a life lesson or for the amateur psychoanalysis of what's going on in my head.

Sorry everyone, it was incredibly stupid of me to poke Eilis. Sorry you've been dragged into my disagreements with her again. Serious lapse in judgement.

OK Annie I had no idea you were begging me to stop. I do not remember it like that and in that case I apologise.

erm no I think that was some other occasion where I was slightly unpopular, but not quite as unpopular as when I disagreed with Annie.

(oh yes, just ask me for lessons in how to win friends and influence people, going cheap)

Maybe no one was online when I disagreed with Annie, in December. I am not going back to re-read it though, anyone can if they want to I guess, the week of 19 December sometime iirc, I am sure all sane people were decorating trees and ignoring my nonsense.

I wouldn't like, recommend it or anything.

Basically (disclaimer AS I REMEMBER IT) expressed disquiet about the pub being / being treated as / becoming a sort of place where people can bang in and express their eye rolling contempt at all sorts of illeducated nonsense being expressed by poor normal people in other places. It felt uncomfortable to me, for a whole host of reasons, many of them I was too restrained to say actually.

So I guess I am a bit pissed off because I tried not to say things I thought would be personally hurtful and keep it all a bit abstract, but it seems I am now a party to a feud, so, fuck it.

Elilis

1. I apologise for getting your name wrong. I did remember that it wasn't Ellis and only had one l, but I missed the i. Sorry. I did try.

2. I was not trying to be passive aggressive, whatever you may think. I made my initial post, then regretted it so I added the second post. I didn't ask for my initial post to be deleted because I wanted the first part to stay.

3. The reason I am having trouble letting go is because last time you attacked me, you hounded me, I told you how much you were upsetting me and still you carried on under the pretext of us all trying to be better people. I was begging you to stop and you didn't. So forgive me if I'm still a little raw. As a result I actually feel physically ill every time I see you posting. That's how much you damaged me.

4. You are the one who has posted 10 times in response to my admittedly ill-thought-out. So who is the one who can't let go?

5. You can wrap it up in all the flowery language you like, but all I hear from your posts is "you are a bad feminist", whether that is what you intend or not. And from the discussion above I see I'm not the only one hearing that same underlying message.

6. WTAF is "she knows it is there, she isn't ready to face it yet, and will do so in private in the her own time" all about; to paraphrase a popular MN phrase, did you mean to be so fucking condescending? I know exactly what I posted and I'm perfectly fucking comfortable with it. Sometimes I say things that aren't very nice. I'm okay with that. It's who I am. What's I'm not okay with is you and your holier-than-thou attitude towards me when I do.

I have nothing else to say to you.

Oh that. Hmm. I disapprove. >

I don't remember the original disagreement.

For the record I don't agree with everything everyone says on here. Not sheep, me. But I don't have time to register all disagreement. Sometimes I don't even manage to read all the posts. Though I do try to.

On the use of "bitch" or "bitching" to describe a woman or her behaviour - let it be noted that I disapprove. Consider yourself told, whoever uses it. >

What I am hurt about is that this seems to be being accepted by this group as ok?

I suspect I am not the only one who has no idea about what you are talking about. I'm not accepting anything, just looking confused.

(I'm also not interested in the details - it looks like a personal spat started by a misunderstanding, and not something I want to get involved in.)

Or in other words, in January Annie is "And criticizing the way someone else writes or thinks in a pejorative way (even if it's valid) is quite difficult to take." - to ME

And it's STILL my fault?

"And criticizing the way someone else writes or thinks in a pejorative way (even if it's valid) is quite difficult to take. That's what I would see as critical, and hostile. "

ok - I get that I did do that, in December, and Annie was hurt. I don't think the response to what I said was fair, actually, but I accept it in the sense of I see why it happened.

What I don't get is that Annie can then make a dig about it in JANUARY and I'm the bad guy?

Ok, look, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit here to be cross-questioned.

See you all later.

Oh. I shall nod sagely whilst not understanding post structuralism at all.

I would never say someone is a bad feminist. I would say "hang on I don't like that way of talking much" but apparently even that is being regarded by this group as too much. So what do you mean by telling me that disagreement is ok? I know! I'm not the one who has a problem with it!