HR Email...

I can see that HMRC might need to know marital status (and parent status, now child benefit and so on is dependent on income). But it doesn't need to be tied to title at all (speaking as someone who prefers not to use a title at all). And I'm not sure whether HR would need to know. They might need to know for death in benefit forms, but that's not a compulsory form, I don't think.

I have no idea which of our HR systems are international (certainly parts of Peoplesoft are, but I don't know if all of it is) and which are country-specific. I know some countries have extra/different leave request processes (we have about 4 different systems to complete to request leave; it's incredibly inefficient.) I know one of my German colleagues said that tax breaks were one of the reasons why he got married, rather than just live together, but whether that would still be the same case 18 or so years on, I don't know.

We do have information we can complete ourselves, such as emergency contacts. Once a year or so, we get a mail to review it and update it. (I always feel a bit pathetic, as I don't know who to put. I haven't updated my will for similar reasons.)

A couple of years back, we had someone change sex at work. The most difficult bit was getting the HR systems to cope with it. They could manage name changes (after all, women get married...) but it just hadn't been programmed to cope with going from M to F (nor, I assume, vice versa.)

Our HR director agrees with me that titles aren't necessary (I quizzed him after we had a diversity talk.) That doesn't mean they aren't used in the systems.

Any excuse to give it a plug!

Thanks for the EDM link.

Aw and there I thought my post was exciting and fun enough to make someone ...

My was for blistory and the May to December relationship.

I don't see why martial status has any relevance for PAYE.

And even if it did - married / not married - then why on earth would they ask for divorced / separated etc. Surely it would just be married or civil partnership = one option, other option = not married or in civil partnership.

I can't see that any of the other stuff has anything to do with PAYE.

Pension beneficiaries etc is a different field altogether. Ditto next of kin if anything happens and they need a contact etc etc. That sort of thing is usually addressed directly and in a straightforward way. We need X for Y type thing.

Let's just say it was and still is a May to December relationship. And a very lovely one at that. It's the May part that works for us and it was her and her very long experience of payroll that told me of the box on our software.

I agree that there is probably less need for a lot of the information that employers collect as there is a lot more onus on individuals to advise HMRC directly. Like you I'm curious as to whether there is actually an obligation to update HMRC with your marital status or whether it's simply an expectation. I know there's no facility under RTI to report a change in personal details although I'm fairly certain address and name changes go through.

I think Yonic nailed it earlier - they need (or collect, at least) marital status. The whole "we're not allowed to assume" thing is to head off snotty responses from the kind of woman who will get her surname and title changed with HR between the ceremony and the reception. I think the "computer says no" response is just jobsworthiness - which might be worth investigating for data protection reasons, but I see as a separate issue.

I'm taking your male colleague's recollection with a pinch of salt. I have precisely zero recollection of what goes on forms within five minutes, unless it's piqued me in some way. I totally believe that two of them didn't remember.

its a required field in our hcm and payroll software.

we cant win, assume and i get a shitty email asking why their profile states them as a ms when they are mrs. ask and it sounds like some are offended

Are they very old or blind Blistory? Or their spouse might be I suppose...

If information regarding martial status were to be needed for IHT and CGT purposes HMRC would require the details at the point of death or sale of asset only. They wouldn't need to be collected in advance just in case. Not least because these things change and not everyone gets paid via PAYE.

I'm self-employed and HMRC have never asked about my marital status because it makes no difference to my tax or NI payments.

Of course. Just not in England and Wales yet and if anybody's MP hasn't yet shown support for the Early Day motion you still can: www.parliament.uk/edm/2014-15/27

I got mine to sign. Just email them the link and ask them to support it.

Scottish MPs can join in too :)

we do ask clients when we're dealing with tax stuff, but there are direct implications there. Not for payroll though.

Moneysoft payroll doesn't have a marital status box, so HMRC can manage perfectly well without knowing from me whether the people I run payrolls for are married or not.

I don't know Moving but we do have an employee who qualifies for married allowance which is probably why I've always assumed it's fine for the software to ask.

Marital status, off the top of my head, affects capital gains tax and inheritance tax as well, so I can see why HMRC need to know. I'd argue that there should be any taxation differences due to marital status/civil partnership status but that's a whole other argument. Thinking about it, HMRC do appear ( and employers by default as collectors on behalf of HMRC) to be entitled to quite a bit of information which comes under the definition of protected characteristics.

I suppose that's all fine as long as none of it is used by employers to discriminate. And as I said above, it does genuinely appear to be information that both men and women have to supply.

Point of information - mothers names and occupation have been on birth and martiage certificates in scotland for many years

I can't find anything on HMRC that says why they need to know marital status other than if there are name changes, one of the spouses was born before 1935 or tax credits involved. If it is the latter that is not dealt with via PAYE and I'm fairly sure it doesn't matter whether you are married or "just" cohabiting

It seems really odd. I've been an employer, I work for employers and we've never had to collect martial status data for HMRC Admittedly I have a slightly much sexier job than administering payroll.

I am intrigued now as to whether this is an actual HMRC requirement, just a shorthand for "update your details if you are changing them because you've got spliced" or if it's one of those funny, antiquated things that still knocks about from time to time like mothers' names missing from marriage certificates and not being able to add deceased fathers to birth certificates if you weren't married.

I don't give a jot about marital status but HMRC do and use employers to provide that information. Less so now that tax credits are paid directly.

I've just asked HMRC and they've said that they require to know the marital status, age, gender and date of birth of individuals for tax purposes. Which is probably why the major software suppliers still have a field for it.

Like I said, it matters not to me but it's information that we collect about all employees - not just women. It's up to an employee to tell us if their personal details change - I don't chase them for it and assume they'll update their details with HMRC directly if they don't want us to know something personal.

As a small company I tend to know when staff get married or divorced but wouldn't dream of updating their status or name or title unless they ask. It is however surprising the number of times payroll get hassled for not updating personal data with the new married name as if it's the default position.

UK employment and taxation law is as similar to the USA as butter is to milk so pointless to compare. In the UK marital status is a protected characteristic like sexuality.

So what's your process for managing changes to marital status Blistory? Because unless you ask periodically or require people to tell you that information is going to go out of date for some people over the course of their employment.

There are no instance where tax codes can be affected by marriage. Unless you employ very, very elderly people who were aged at least 65 when married couples allowance was withdrawn about years ago.

I just asked our staff and none of them remember me asking about marital status. And yet, I know that everyone of them filled it in on the starter form.

Same for gender - you need to tell your employer if you receive a Gender Recognition Certificate and they need to update the payroll records. Apparently those files at HMRC are then on a restricted access basis but yup, the payroll department needs to know.

Sage payroll asks for marital status for all. I'm fairly certain IRIS does to. I think there are some instances where tax codes can still be affected for those in receipt of widow/er pensions and other historical tax reasons but can't remember off the top of my head.

HMRC still have the info on their systems as well.

Here's at least one major HR database supplier that uses the marital status field
docs.oracle.com/cd/E13053_01/hr9pbr1_website_master/eng/psbooks/hebn/chapter.htm?File=hebn/htm/hebn06.htm

In the US it affects benefits such as health insurance so will be a standard field in any major HR software. It's pretty standard to keep the information - and the men in the organisation will have filled in a form giving the info, they just won't remember . It's certainly been standard on the last 3 -4 jobs I've had to give that information (since 2000). Benefits here that are affected by marital status are largely pension related.

Interestingly marriage and civil partnership are one of the 9 protected characteristics www.equalityhumanrights.com/private-and-public-sector-guidance/guidance-all/protected-characteristics Which means you can't be discriminated against because of them ... I didn't know that!