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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Casual sexist remarks at school/college that stayed with you?

87 replies

JeanneDeMontbaston · 16/12/2014 16:50

I was just wondering about the impact of casual sexism. I don't mean sustained, serious, shocking things - I mean the off-the-cuff remarks that didn't seem important at the time, but that really stayed with you.

I remember really clearly, overhearing my teacher saying to another teacher: 'A lot of them are really ladylike, and then there's [myname]!'

It is a little bit funny, I know - and I know exactly what they meant - but I was thinking about the way I remember this once chance comment twenty years on. I thought of it because one of my mates just mentioned her lecturer (female) turned to her calmly and say 'Jenny, do you ever stop to let the boys get a word in edgewise?!' Not, 'the other students' but 'the boys'. Hmm

What about you?

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LoblollyBoy · 18/12/2014 13:45

I am an atheist from a family if atheists. In the course of lunchtime conversation, it somehow came up that I expected to marry in a registry office, not a church. Headmaster's response? 'Oh, you'll change your mind about that.' For the frock, of course. :(

JeanneDeMontbaston · 18/12/2014 13:33

I'm not convinced single-sex education is always better. I'm sure it can be.

My school was single-sex and a lot of the sexism was subtle stuff - I was always too loud, too messy, too argumentative. And then I got out into the real world and realied they'd done me a huge disservice by making me feel I had to apologize all the time, that I shouldn't argue my case (I've got over that one, have you noticed? Grin), and that I should be quieter and not too clever.

Actually, a big one was not being too clever. We were taught not to apply for universities where we might get rejected, ostensibly because it would upset us too much, but I think there was a strong undercurrent of 'don't be arrogant and think you're better than you are'.

I'm not bitter, I don't think - I have a lot of fond memories - but I am finding it really interesting to read this thread and see the patterns. I really do think that these small comments have much more of an impact than we generally admit.

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Beangarda · 18/12/2014 13:19

IHeart, your Julius Caesar story is giving me the rage on your behalf...

I went to a very rough all girls convent school where sexism manifested itself primarily in terms of low expectations and an insistence on female sexual purity, but I still remember a male teacher (an admittedly unpleasant human being) saying, after I had won a debate in religion class, that I would need to learn to become 'less aggressive' because 'it didn't look well on girls'.

nunkspugget · 18/12/2014 13:08

School pe. Girl? You get wiffle or foam balls, plastic bats and ladylike sports. Boy??? Cricket balls, leather balls, wooden bats of multiple variety, and get to actually get dirty during pe.

Toomuchtea · 18/12/2014 12:13

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/12/2014 12:08

She says nowadays everyone should learn (including men) but she made the decision not to because she knew too many bright women who ended up as secretaries to men less intelligent than them.

grimbletart · 18/12/2014 12:01

Countess: never heard of that autobiography. Must catch up with it. Personally I think it is better to learn but never ever tell anyone until you are senior enough for it not to matter. That is even more true of shorthand although that is pretty well obsolete now in most jobs.

grimbletart · 18/12/2014 11:59

Slug: I fitted shorthand and typing lessons into free periods while I was taking my A levels because I was going into journalism. This was long before computers became common. Incredibly useful for my work but I never let on when I left journalism for a related career where I was often the only woman in otherwise all male meetings. Otherwise guess who would have been assumed to take the minutes when there wasn't a secretary present?

Deviating slightly from topic, touch typing is incredibly useful. It is painful to see men (and sometimes women) prodding away at keyboards with two or three fingers and not being able to look away. Oddly, if you asked me to read out the layout of a Qwerty keyboard I simply can't do it. My fingers know exactly where the keys are but my head doesn't. I, too, enjoy having conversations while continuing to type Grin

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/12/2014 11:57

Slug, did you know that Dame Margaret Joan Anstee, who was undersecretary general of the United Nations, called her autobiography, 'Never learn to type'?

slug · 18/12/2014 11:12

EBearHug. My school, to it's credit, did teach everyone one term of typing. The problem was, once I hit the workplace, I had to hide the fact that I could type because as soon as it was known that I could, that was the only work I was ever given. Hmm This was in the early 80's, long before computers were regular items in offices. Now days, I have stopped hiding the fact that I can type and instead freak people out with my ability to type one thing while simultaneously having a conversation with them about something completely different Grin.

However, none of the boys ever had a secretarial course suggested to them, even the ones that were better at typing than me. Funny that.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/12/2014 11:03

Nothing like any of this at my school. It was a girls' school which only appointed its first full time male teacher the year I started.
Hurrah for single sex education.

NotCitrus · 18/12/2014 10:02

Fortunately most of my school role models were better, even if maths teaching was crap. The head of Physics was female and told us that times had definitely changed since she studied physics at university in the late 60s - she had been the only woman out of 300 students and never had to buy her own lunch.
Now (early 90s), there would be about a dozen women and you will have to buy your own lunch! She made it clear that this was actually a good thing, though being skint at the time I never realised why until recently.

Schoolaroundthecorner · 18/12/2014 02:23

On a school trip when ai was about 14/15 a boy I didn't know and, as far as I can remember, had little interaction with wrote on my souvenir leaflet thing (it was a week long residential trip and we were all writing on each others, like a yearbook) that if I was a boy he'd 'punch me in the face'.

Still no idea why he said that, why he felt the need to write it down so everyone else would see it, but I spent far too long afterwards worrying about how annoying I must have been and what other boys thought of me and moderating my behaviour around them.

Prat!

JeanneDeMontbaston · 18/12/2014 01:02

When I asked our history teacher why women were never mentioned in history he replied "well unfortunately they didn't actually do anything. They just looked after the children "

Shock

Wow. That is truly awful.

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cherubimandseraphim · 18/12/2014 00:58

Mind you, it was a school that had major issues with aspiration anyway. The Head of Upper School's 'inspirational' speech was about how much she looked forward to 'seeing the girls with their babies in prams in a few years'. This was in about 1997. Not long ago, really.

Similarly in about 1996 my headmaster (of a girls' school - the rank and file teachers were women but the head and most of the department heads were men...) said at our leaving party that he was "looking forward to having some young ladies like you to push me around in my bath-chair when I'm older". Lovely Hmm And the head of modern languages liked to loudly remark: "Get in shape for pushing those prams, girls!"

Mind you I work in a very male-dominated workplace and those are nothing compared to the sexist crap I've heard there. Angry

messyisthenewtidy · 18/12/2014 00:48

When I asked our history teacher why women were never mentioned in history he replied "well unfortunately they didn't actually do anything. They just looked after the children "

EBearhug · 17/12/2014 21:17

I should consider doing a secretarial course "as a backup".

Whereas I was told, "girls of your calibre won't be secretaries," when I signed up for typing as a 6th form elective class. If they'd really thought it through, they'd have made everyone learn typing, because it can save you a fortune (in time or money) in typing up dissertations and theses. Of course, they probably hadn't quite seen the future which meant that within 5-10 years, everyone would be using keyboards and sending emails and so on anyway - as a result, having learnt touch-typing was one of the most useful things I did at school.

mypoosmellsofroses · 17/12/2014 19:04

Not at school, but as a Guide, would have been about 10/11. Our group was quite progressive ( considering late 70s/early 80s) and one evening we were taken to local Fire Station for a talk about the Fire Brigade and their work.
The man giving the talk was keen to impress on us that women could join the service, all good up until the point he told us that there was a minimum chest measurement (due to breathing apparatus) for women joining and that they all wanted to be the one that gets to check it. Made me feel grubby at the time, and has stayed with me all these years.

twostepsister · 17/12/2014 16:14

Iheartkingthistle it is a sexist comment when she doesn't say this to any of the fathers that work similar hours, it is an assumption on her part that I should be at home looking after my boys instead of working overtime.

CalamitouslyWrong · 17/12/2014 15:43

I was taught higher physics by a sexist dinosaur. I was the only girl in the class (there were only 9 of us, presumably because they didn't trust him with a full class; the other teachers had full higher physics classes).

He absolutely refused to teach me properly He'd act like I wasn't there as he explained things to the boys. If forced to engage with me he'd mansplain things in a very slow voice like I was an idiot. If he was demonstrating an experiment to the boys, he'd ask me to hold things and refer to me as 'his lovely assistant'.

The really annoying thing was that I was by far the best at physics in the class. I was the only one who got an A; the next best grade in the class was a C. I got the best higher results in my whole school and the teachers knew I wasn't a lobotomised fool. Yet this teacher treated me like one because I was female.

I hated him. He did the same to friends who had him for standard grade physics and they were relieved to get a different teacher for higher.

Slumberparty · 17/12/2014 15:32

I remember my Design and Technology teacher running his finger over a thick edge of plastic I had spent ages filing down and said "that's very good....for a girl ". It made me so angry at the time (and still does now actually).

slug · 17/12/2014 15:30

We had one consultation with the careers advice tutor when we were in the 6th form. I was told (top student, regularly outdid all the boys in exams, heading straight for university to study science etc) that I should consider doing a secretarial course "as a backup". I remember looking the guy in the eye and asking him if he advised the boys to do the same thing before flouncing out.

museumum · 17/12/2014 14:22

I honestly don't remember any at all. And I studied maths and physics. I honestly think all the teachers and lecturers were on best behaviour to encourage the girl :)
Either that or I was too thick skinned to notice??

IHeartKingThistle · 17/12/2014 14:18

That isn't sexist is it twosteps? I am more than capable of looking after my DC but they still miss DH when he works away. I don't think I would have take offence at that.

twostepsister · 17/12/2014 13:58

When my boys were young I worked part time in the week and all day Saturday and overtime all day on a Sunday and bank holiday Monday (paid double time). One member of staff (mid 50's no children) commented that did my boys miss me whilst I worked all weekend? I replied that their dad was more than capable looking after them and I'm sure that they like the 2 weeks abroad that I can pay for each year.

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