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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Any good examples to help point out sexism to my DH?

135 replies

BertieBotts · 25/11/2014 20:26

As he announced this evening that I am "just looking for sexism everywhere" (Nope, not looking, it just is there) and he was upset that I saw the world as such a black dark evil place Hmm (I don't).

I'm not particularly interested in explanations of privilege like the video game difficulty setting thing, just examples that he will "get". I used the example that a man might be upset if a man he knows wants to date his sister whereas a woman would never be upset at a woman wanting to date her brother, unless she thought the woman was a total psychopath. Well, that didn't work because he has 3 sisters, all an entire generation older than him so of course they have been overprotective and ridiculous over every GF he has ever had Grin So I called "Friends" and he started making up arguments.

He gets the "big stuff", but he doesn't see the smaller, everyday type of feminism, and that's what I'd like to open his eyes to if possible. I know that a lot of it is just that it's invisible to him because it happens so often to women that we don't mention it and men, especially if they don't do it, don't realise that it's happening at all.

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PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 26/11/2014 11:05

How about sport- watch a sports bulletin. How much is female?

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 26/11/2014 11:01

Oh yes, Angela Merkel. Lots of stories commenting on her looks, weight and choice of clothes. There's probably more written about AM on these topics, than all of the other EU leaders put together.

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 26/11/2014 10:58

Discuss with him how the Daily Mail writes about women - derogatory comments about their shape, weight, looks, spending habits working/child bearing choices, ad infinitum. They wouldn't write about men in a similar way.

Assumptions about jobs - eg that a Doctor will be a man.

The recent story about a female pilot

The way that a lot of society perceives women who use the title Ms and how women always have to specify whether they are a Miss/Mrs/Ms. Men do not have to suffer this.

The way that a lot of men continue to behave like single men when they are fathers and that their employers assume that they have a female partner at home to pick up all the domestic stuff.

Many men carry on with hobbies and nights out/weekends away while assuming that their DW will look after the DCs.

dreamingbohemian · 26/11/2014 10:57

Yes and apparently Putin, knowing she has a fear of dogs, would bring his dogs in whenever they met. Assholes.

FloraFox · 26/11/2014 10:51

Perhaps remind him that Berlusconi called Merkel an "unfuckable lardass".

dreamingbohemian · 26/11/2014 10:45

Bertie, is he east german by any chance? The communist regime was awful, obviously, but very big on gender parity, which might influence his attitude.

(just as an aside, Germany may not be top in terms of overall political equality but damn, Angela Merkel is making a huge contribution to how women are seen on the international stage -- the strongest leader in Europe right now and pictured as the only one who can stand up to Putin. But perhaps point out to your husband how rare she is!)

JeffreyGartnerEatsWell · 26/11/2014 10:43

It really is the little things though! If you speak your mind as a woman you're awkward or aggressive. If you challenge a man's bad behaviour you're a man-hater!

My solicitor (male) told me it was "important that [my] dd not become a man hater". I was floored. Id said nothing negative about even one man, ie, my x. I had detailed some of his behaviour to me in the past, but without tears or drama. Quite dispassionately i told my male solicitor my x had tried to strangle me and that he was determined not to pay maintenance.

I told the solicitor it was unlikely my dd would end up a manhater as my father brothers etc all behaved WELL and her father was not the one and only ambassador for men. I told him also that i would do my best to make sure my son didnt become a misogynist.
Solicitor looked ar me like id chained myself to his desk.

NotCitrus · 26/11/2014 10:43

If you have children, do people say he is " so good" for looking after them for a day or putting them to bed? Do they say the same to you?
Do people expect you to remember birthdays etc for his side of the family?
Look at TV programmes - how often are bosses and random background characters women?

BertieBotts · 26/11/2014 10:37

I knew I wasn't imagining it! I started the thread Grin I won't claim that it was this which inspired the everyday sexism blog, but I remember thinking at the time that it was totally astounding and would be a good idea for a blog.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1172366-What-acts-of-sexism-have-you-encountered-today

I had a look at the site but it mostly seems to be teenage girls posting now, which is good, but not so relevant to our lives. Perhaps if we ever have a daughter. I like the look of the book though and will probably order it for myself. He doesn't really read but maybe I can read bits of it. If nothing else it will be handy to bonk him on the head with whenever he ignores sexism Grin Pavlovian training!

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JeffreyGartnerEatsWell · 26/11/2014 10:33

The australian presenter who wore the same suit everyday for a year!! While his female co presenter continued to receive emails wrt her clothing every day. Not one viewer noticed or commented that he wore the same suit every day.

JeffreyGartnerEatsWell · 26/11/2014 10:29

Why does traditionally female but unskilled work pay so much less than traditionally male but unskilled work?
Egs
Drivers/ carers
Security guards/ cleaners
Waitress/ post man
Hairdressr / refuse collector.

Even where training is required (hairdressing) a Man can just show up, turn the keys in the ignition and earn more.

Zazzles007 · 26/11/2014 10:24

I have been watching news programs, and noting how many stories are devoted to men vs women. Very often there will be more news stories on men than on women. And even if the program is targeted towards women (eg those programs from 9am onwards), there will still be lots of stories devoted to men. Get to sit in front of the telly with pen and paper and make a tally.

MN164 · 26/11/2014 10:11

As mentioned earlier on the thread.

How about this in the Christmas stocking, if that's your "bag"?

www.amazon.co.uk/Everyday-Sexism-Laura-Bates/dp/1471131572/

Of even better send him to a lecture by Laura Bates. She's eloquent and passionate without being emotional - very compelling.

sashh · 26/11/2014 07:58

Ask him to find a popular children's book with a female lead, then a TV show and then a film.

There are a few. But would home alone be the same with a girl instead of a boy? What about how to train your dragon? So why is it a boy.

Adverts, what are they saying? Who is making Xmas dinner in them all? Who does he think sent the chocolate to the soldier in the Sainsbury's add - but he thinks it's a female.

Linking to another thread, has he ever been refused contraception of choice because he might change his mind?

Sports, have a look at football, until the FA was formed women's matches got the same crowd as men, then the FA banned them from playing on FA grounds.

What does he have to do to look presentable at work? What do the women have to do? Why?

Oh the old favorite - why do girls have to wear a tie for school uniform?

scallopsrgreat · 25/11/2014 22:49

Everyday Sexism site is great. Am I remembering wrong or did that start life as a thread on here? Perhaps both ideas just happened at around the same time.

Laura Bates came on here to announce the site when she first started it. I remember that. And everyone thought it was a great idea then too!

whatdoesittake48 · 25/11/2014 22:46

My husband had recently started reversing things to test the sexism. If it wouldn't be acceptable for a woman to say or do something to or about a man it isn't acceptable for a man to do it to a woman. We also use the racism test. It has opened a few eyes in our house.

Eeek · 25/11/2014 21:56

How about the fact that thanks to unequal pay women effectively work for free from the 7th November?

www.tuc.org.uk/equality-issues/gender-equality/equal-pay/equal-pay-day-coming-next-thursday-7-november.

Think what a difference that makes to a household - you could have fun with an extra 6 weeks pay.

BertieBotts · 25/11/2014 21:37

Yep there are still boobs everywhere. Bums are more common though at the moment, I reckon, and turn up in really bizarre places. There are three photography shops in this town and inamongst all of the wedding shots, baby photos and family portrait there will just be someone's arse in a thong. We also pass the red light district on the tram into town, complete with strip bars with giant illustrations covering the doors, and there's an advert for the local brothel on some of the trolleys at one of the supermarkets. Weird.

True that the ratios are shit everywhere.

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PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 25/11/2014 21:27

If he marries, he will not automatically have to question (and be judged on) what he does with his surname.

If he is in a relationship at the time he has a baby, he can generally expect that the baby will have his surname.

If he leaves work early to attend parents evening, has a photo on his desk, leaves work early once a week to do early nursery pick up, etc, he is an involved and admired parent. A woman doing similar is often 'not committed'

If his MIL doesn't get a birthday card, he won't be blamed and judged for it. Ditto if the PE kit is forgotten.

noblegiraffe · 25/11/2014 21:26

"Germany was ranked 18th by the Inter-Parliamentary Union of Women (IPUW) 2008 survey with women representing 32.2% of members of the lower house and 21.7% of the Senate, representing a decline on previous years. The current Chancellor, Angela Merkel, elected in 2005 is the first woman to be elected to this post."

That's hardly equality is it? (Don't know if the current figures are any better)
www.wikigender.org/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_Germany

What I remember from Germany is the sheer number of naked breasts plastered everywhere.

BertieBotts · 25/11/2014 21:21

I love that Mitchell and Webb sketch Grin

Who is running the country doesn't work, we're in Germany. Nice to be somewhere with a competent head of state, though!

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BertieBotts · 25/11/2014 21:18

Oh yes to be fair he sometimes comes home open mouthed with tales of how his male colleagues speak about their wives, used to get it much more often when he worked at a cheap no-frills hotel, though, lots of prostitute using businessmen and he was constantly shocked. Now they don't tend to bring their personal life to work so he comes up against it less.

He does pretty much all a lot of housework so no complaints - I did say to him tonight, he is actually the least sexist man I know. And I reckon the sisters did help - I mean being brought up by effectively four women and one man will do that to you Grin though MIL is not going to win any feminist prizes any time soon.

Language we've argued about before, because he thinks that certain words aren't gendered/aren't derogatory whereas I know that they are. He won't even bow to my superiority as a language teacher there Hmm

Everyday Sexism site is great. Am I remembering wrong or did that start life as a thread on here? Perhaps both ideas just happened at around the same time.

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noblegiraffe · 25/11/2014 21:16
Mitchell and Webb, adverts aimed at women versus men?

Ask him who is running the country! Percentage of female MPs, CEOs etc.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 25/11/2014 21:12

If he is of average build, the whole world is a wee bit more comfortable for him than the average woman - that bar stool, that car, etc. All designed for the male proportions.

YonicScrewdriver · 25/11/2014 21:06

Take some sexist phrases and recast them in racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic language - ask him what his knee jerk reaction to each is and ask him why it's not as strong as to sexist language.

I'll give you an example that almost sounds like a compliment: "that woman is as good as any man, if not better"

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