Rape culture in action. Massive Trigger Warning

I don't want to be all "what about the menz?" but from what I have read I get the impression that there is a huge culture of brutality in conservative American institutions - colleges, military academies etc. These young men will probably have grown up with corporal punishment from their fathers, bullying in their high schools, and a general idea that the fittest survive and it's totally legitimate to get to the top of the heap by abusing people weaker than yourself. So put them in an environment with vulnerable young women, and this is a pretty inevitable consequence.

The other thing I took from that article is the men-pleasing attitude these young women grow up with. So much of it is about having a high-status boyfriend - it's what puts these girls in vulnerable situations and why if they have a "bad experience", their friends won't speak out against the attacker for fear of being ostracised themselves. It's like they'd rather date someone who raped their friend than not get dates.

It's utterly tragic, but it's a far wider and deeper problem than just getting more victims to report sexual assaults.

There was something in the news recently about the Edinburgh branch of a US fraternity www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30128674 . While I hope there is no systematic gang rape going on here, we are not without our problems of rape and misogyny culture.

UK universities are by no means great. There was a horrible culture of misogyny when I was a student. There was one incident of a video of a girl doing a sexual act in front of lots of boys being circulated. I don't know how much of it was the stuff of legend, but it was the done thing to seek it out, there were rumours of her being so ashamed that she had to leave, ha ha the slut, that kind of thing. I never said much at the time but it is so depressing looking back. One of my friends was sexually assaulted by another friend while she slept; she was angry more than upset; some of our friendship group found it funny. I would immediately end my friendship with someone if they expressed that kind of attitude now. I guess as a student you are still young, impressionable and go for self presevation. You either try to fit in and succumb to peer pressure, or you keep quiet and stay under the radar. I took option b, which I am quite ashamed about. I definitely would have supported a friend who was attacked though, in whatever way they needed me to, so actions of Jackie's friends at UVA make no sense to me.

There are the brave few who make a stand, in student unions etc. Some universities are actively trying to turn the tide; Manchester University has recently launched this campaign manchesterstudentsunion.com/wegetit, zero tolerance against sexual harassment, the seed from which rape culture grows.

I don't believe it is better in the UK. There might, possibly, be some divergence in the gender of victims - we're world famous for school buggery - and only our red-bricks have 'fraternities' as such (colleges & houses) with the attendant private clubs of dubious activities. But, overall, you wouldn't find much difference I suspect. Instead of fraternities, we have sport clubs and plenty of other means to collectivise crime. It's bonding, dontcha know.

I'd like to think we have better awareness in the UK, and victims would be more likely to go to the police. But I don't.

""I went to the dean covered in scabs and with broken ribs," Seccuro remembers. "And he said, 'Do you think it was just regrettable sex?'"

You know, if one in four women is seriously sexually assaulted, and each rapist carries out an average six attacks - bearing in mind these were young perpetrators - that means one in 24 young men is a serial rapist.
And grows up to work with young women, get married, have kids ...

Puffins thats terrible.
I wonder why the wives stand by them.

I found out 10 years afterwards, that the man who raped me had raped all 6 girls in our friendship group. Including his DSD. The school and SS knew and no one thought to wonder why every girl in our friendship group went massively off the rails within a few months of each other. His DW knew, but still encouraged us all to come over ummm, no

The wife of one man who assaulted me told me to forget about it. If anyone was to believe them they are Mr and Mrs Perfect but he is a complete letch and I don't for one second think I was the only one.

Have read it. Sadly, it didn't surprise me at all. Nor did the comments. UVA is merely doing what society at large does all the time, questions the victims, and lets the perpetrator go free.

MEOD take care

Its all just so sad. No wants to send their daughters to the rape school. Says it all really. The money and reputation is more important.

"The more privileged he is, the more likely the woman has to die before he's held accountable."

There are just no words to answer that sort of comment :(

Well that was a traumatising read.

There does seem to be an issue with sexual violence in the US education system - on another thread a poster linked about boys sexually assaulting each other as part of these weird ritual things and I have read many times about sexual assault & rape in high schools and of course the many stories recently about universities.

I don't think it is as bad here for student on student assault - I do think that a girl who was brutally gang raped at university in the UK would be very likely to go to the police and I don't remember anyone talking about it happening as a "thing", I think the university and school situation in the UK is reflective of across society - the culture of ritualised stuff that you have to do just isn't there - assaults are more likely between two people who know each other etc.

Of course that's not to say that we don't have problems just that our worst failures seem to be not in universities but around children and young people - there are parallels with institutions covering things up, silencing victims etc.

So the question is, now that here and there it has come out, or has come out, that widespread sexual abuse has been perpetrated and covered up by institutions who should have helped, and the victims failed so spectacularly, and the criminals allowed to remain free, is anything actually going to be done about it? In law, in the cultures, in society, will approaches and attitudes change, will genuine steps be taken to stamp this shit out and lock up the men who are doing it? I really bloody hope so because if these types of situations - the most appalling widespread abuse covered up for years - don't result in action then I can't really see what possibly could.

Horrific. Even more horrific are some of the apologist comments.

I'm away for the weekend so will read the article when I get back.

What gets me about this article is the sheer number of men who graduated from UVA, who were to be eventually charged, convicted and incarcerated for crimes of a sexual nature against women in later life. Imagine how many men it would deter and how many, many, many women it would save, if UVA dealt with this issue in the manner it deserved.

What is also telling is one of the comments below the article - a woman recounts how her father told her of the rape culture at UVA, and several fraternities to avoid, should she want to avoid being raped. The thing is, he graduated in 1965, so it has been going on for many decades now! I wonder if we were to look back at newspaper files to see exactly how far this goes back, what we would find? Would it stretch back to good old Thomas Jefferson himself? We know that misogyny has existed for thousands of years, and this is a very good example of how it is perpetuated against women.

Didn't a female UVA student go missing recently? Hit the news here as she was born in the UK and emigrated as a child.

Not just that love never.

How awful. And the linked comments from other UVA rape survivors...

Snow, surely a man is as capable as a woman of imagining how terrible it would be to have his mouth or his anus penetrated without consent?

taking care of their own you mean?

You have to remember that some of the men who run UVA will be UVA alumni. Make the connection.

the have let rapists loose, with high class degrees, to filter into top end jobs to prey on women there.

no words.

"I would have thought they would be more understanding and supportive to someone who had gone through it though, as it could well have been them."

That's exactly it though. Part of it is the fear that it could happen to them so they seek to justify ways in which they "wouldn't have got themselves into that situation". It's a self-protection mechanism which is also self-deluding, which serves to undermine and "other" victims of rape and reinforces rape culture and victim blaming. It's part of the positive feedback loop that means that rapists can go on raping. But while i condemn it I can understand it - this is a product of the fear that violence against women breeds, and it works perfectly for the perpetrators

Lisak article on his study here