Anti rape posters by Manchester Police

If they're both as drunk as each other then surely they're equally responsible? Just something that troubles me somewhat.

I think the point is that, if both parties are sufficiently drunk not to be able to consent, it's very unlikely that they will be sufficiently compos mentis to actually get it on. I expect that the scenario you're describing would be deemed to fall in the 'drunken consent is still consent' category.

I wonder if there could be a bit more clarity about where the 'line' is (not in these posters, which are great, but more generally). I have seen it misrepresented in some places (including on this board) as 'drunken sex is rape', which of course isn't the deal. My concern is, I suppose, that we end up giving men a message that doesn't tally with their real-life experiences (which could include plenty of consensual, happy, pissed-up shagging). And that, in doing so, the correct, and valuable, message gets undermined.

What if the man is also too drunk to consent or to ask for consent and they both have sex? Why should the onus only be on the man to get consent? I like the posters but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that two legless people could have a drunken fumble (as I have in the past) and the man could be accused of rape after when he was in exactly the same state. If the man is sober or only a little tipsy and deliberately got someone drunk and incoherent then of course that's different. If they're both as drunk as each other then surely they're equally responsible? Just something that troubles me somewhat.

But yes, the posters are a step in the right direction still.

Another poster campaign this one by a university, no police involvement sadly but a good start. Hopefully this is the start of a turning tide

Yes that case was appalling Katee and featured the Met turning victims away from the Sapphire unit which is supposed to be specialised for sex crimes.

The whole thing beggared belief and then after the investigations it was "lessons learned" blah and there have been a string of other stuff around the Met's handling of sex crimes as well (not to mention them being in the pockets of journos and corrupt and loads of other stuff).

Thinking about this prompted me to read more about the Warboys case; just saw in the police complaints report that they didn't bother to search his cab because "The victim cannot remember anything past getting in the cab. It would seem unlikely that a cab driver would have alcohol in his vehicle, let alone drug substances." Seriously?

This shows why the "illegal cabs and being a slag running around drunk in the dark with your tits out will get you raped, everything else = safe" campaigns and advice aren't just incorrect, they are downright dangerous. I wish conscious and unconscious victim blamers could see this.

Ah cool!

Opps I may have confused issues, the "don't get in a taxi" ones are in changing rooms, as well as bus stops, tube stations...

Hopefully the better ones from Manchester are also better placed!

No no the TFL ones are in shops!

The ones in the OP are up around universities if I understood the article correctly.

Erm these posters are in the wrong place, as the intended target of the ad is men. These ads need to go in places that men will see - the men's loos, betting shops, [the men's loos in] pubs and clubs, etc. The intended target of these ads is not women , so the way they are using the posters is completely inappropriate and problematic.

And a meme just for this alone:

Yep.

I guess so that you can be reminded while buying a party frock just what might be done to you as a result of wearing that frock and going out.

Like I say, it fucks me off no end, it really does.

They put these posters in women's clothes shop changing rooms now? Jesus hates shopping

Zazzles I think you summed it up perfectly

"If she's too drunk to consent, assume she hasn't given it."

I think the work 'assume' is in there because it puts the onus back on the would-be (although possibly unknowing, scary as that is) rapist that it is their responsibility to not take advantage of a women in a compromising position. In marketing that last sentence is known as a 'call to action' - you are asking the target of your message to 'do something' (eg buy your product, call a toll free number etc). So the call to action in this ad is saying 'Don't take consent as a given, just because she's had too much to drink.'

I don't think "one thing led to another" is meant in the way it sounds.

• yeah the one thing led to another thing was a bit weird but the poster is great so step in the right direction right?

Oh we NEVER had anything whatsoever mentioned about consent issues at school / university, I suspect that is a generational thing.

Happily, the vast vast vast majority of the time, people who have got pissed and had consensual sex don't report anyone to the police.

They only report to the police if they have been raped, if they think well hold on I didn't consent and look what happened there. And even then most of the time they won't report anyway.

Realistically if someone is enthusiastic and able to control their limbs then that's good isn't it. If they can't stand up / talk / are talking rubbish / or are passing in and out of consciousness then wise to call it quits, which is what the poster addresses.

And realistically if it means that some people don't have sex when it would have been fine to do so, that's better than anyone having sex when actually it's not fine to do so, I think? People in the first group can always have a fuck later / in the morning.

"Pity about DI Damien Simpsons comment, one thing did not lead to another, a rapist raped someone.
"

Thought that was off too, but then I'd wonder how much his hands are tied.
If they're still being processed through the courts or haven't lead to charges being brought there might be a few people who have been arrested or interviewed following a report who would be saying that they now can't get a fair trial or that the police are assigning guilt when it's not yet been proven.

Either way , if that's the case he'd have been better off saying nothing.

As has been mentioned, it's great to see a different type of campaign against it. Focusing on blaming those who are committing the offence, and hopefully getting them to think more.

thedancingbear

"surveys show that many young men are not aware that having sex with someone too pissed to consent is rape

This is terrifying.

I don't know what the word 'assume' is doing in the poster. It's just wrong. You don't assume that consent hasn't been given, it's just the case."

We certainly had it quite often mentioned at school/ university that being drunk isn't an excuse. I think the problem is how is it applied in practice? There is a huge amount of people who hook up when drunk, it's in the culture. Some people would very obviously be really drunk, but since it's a sliding scale then there is a grey area where it would be more difficult to tell if a girl or guy is too drunk to consent (not that it makes it right anyway).

KateeGee yes that was it, it was a poster in an oasis fitting room.

I was really pleased that while trying on a coat I got a timely and important reminder that I was prey just in case, you know, I might have forgotten for 5 minutes.

And the website! Oh my fucking god. The selfies - to show that women got home safely. What the absolute fuck? You'd think that every night out a female goes on is like the sodding Running Man. I am getting really sick of this.

Can I say right here and now that I have got illegal minicabs. Oh yes! I was young and enjoyed a variety of risky behaviours. And what happened with these illegal minicab drivers. They took me home!!!! Meanwhile, had I got a Black Cab as per the ads I might have been in the lovely company of John Warboys. There was also a licenced minicab driver raping people when I was 16 he got caught it was in the news.

What are the stats around this anyway? I agree that it's likely more to do with concern about the black economy than anything else

Why do we have to be confronted with images telling us that we are prey at every fucking turn I am sick of it.

One tiny, little problem with the poster (and interview), imo...

The focus on "if she cant consent", implying unconciousness, rather than "if she is pissed out of her head and sort of enthusiastic (in that legless kind of way)". The point that if someone is that drunk, they are not capable of proper, informed consent, even if you "think" they are consenting.

I'm not talking about sex after a glass of wine with your husband, before THOSE PEOPLE turn up

I guess that would be asking too much though :)

SpeverendRooner, or even more cynically, perhaps, thereby promoting the entirely rape-free service provided by london licensed minicabs