Feminist Pub 14: The Bluestocking, a place for feminist chat and feminists to chat

We're not doing a Thanksgiving. We're going to Canada for the evening to watch a live show by the two blokes from Mythbusters. There will be a roast chicken at some point as we have several days off school, but I refused to do turkey twice in 30 days.

Turkey is for Christmas.

I don't get the idea that PhDs etc shouldn't use their title in case someone needs a medical Dr and asks them for help. You just say "sorry, I'm not a medical doctor" and they move on. The sick person won't be left in a worse position for it, they'd be just as lacking in medical help as they would be if you didn't use your title.

Alternatively, make sure your first aid qualifications are up to date.

My dd recently applied for a new passport and was advised not to put Dr as her title. The reason was that if she was on a flight and a passenger fell ill and the call went out for a Dr they might come to her. As her DPhil is molecular biology she might not be the best qualified to inflate a collapsed lung with a bent wire coat hanger and a Bic pen (as one medic famously did a few years back).

I am expecting a new title-free bank card any day soon. I hope it will come tomorrow, before I'm away for the weekend. I can't have a title-free bank account, though.

I would also like to speak up for women's groups at work. Ours is fab, and I've had opportunities I wouldn't have had without it, really boosted my profile and given me opportunities to show what I'm capable of, plus I get to know what's going on in the company before my manager does.

Also, his manager initially tried to block my involvement, so the fact I can piss him off without doing anything wrong is justification enough for its existence.

Thanks! I am up to my eyeballs with cornbread right now for my highly regarded (if I do say so myself) Southern cornbread dressing (aka stuffing). We will be having sweet potatoes topped with pecans and brown sugar, but NOT marshmallows.

Ah, glad to know I wasn't talking total rubbish, buffy.

penguins - good thought!

Happy Thanksgiving for tomorrow, everyone.

I know we have a few US MNers on here, so just thought I'd say an early Happy Thanksgiving. Hope you have a lovely day and an enormous meal. It sounds a great holiday (though I'll never get the sweet potato and marshmallow thing )

There are doctorates here that aren't PhDs, I think, scone? DPhil is just a different abbreviation for a doctorate, but I think you can also do other kinds of things called professional doctorates? I have no idea, really, though.

annie it sounds really great - if it was un-traumatic I bet you overprepared massively and had the thesis at a higher standard than necessary, didn't you? Because you have been stressing over it.

I still haven't got around to changing my title on my bank cards. The only person who addresses post to me as Dr is my ex-husband, and my employer. I should really get onto that, shouldn't I?!

I've been really absent on this thread all term, but it's been brilliant to read and lurk, and I'll try to be a bit more present and supportive now.

In the US, lawyers are doctors. The degree is Juris Doctor. No one uses the title, though, in case someone might try to get you to operate the defibrillator on an airplane.

Can one of you come round and make the beasties brush their teeth and have a wash while I just sit here? It's not like I did a lot today, but I did manage to hunt down a Lego Minecraft Crafting Box... V. exhausting.

School signs always have "Headteacher: So-and-so + string-of-letters-after". I wonder why.

Interesting, thanks. I don't really know about this stuff, just have a friend who bleats on about it who I don't really listen to. I always felt short changed that, as a lawyer you don't get any letters after your name for your main post-grad qualification. Obviously you wouldn't use them, but still...

And the Italians have other conventions about professors and doctors ... (gleaned from watching Montalbano ...)

Historically, yes. But at least in the US, if a university calls it a doctorate, you're a doctor. There are all sorts of doctorates in the US that are not PhDs.

And isn't it only an honourary title for a medical doctor anyway. Or summat.

Just wait till you get people wanting you to tell them what's wrong with their sinuses when they see Dr in your title. Then get in a huff when you say you are not a medical doctor.

I filled in an online form yesterday which asked me whether I preferred being addressed by my first name or by my title and surname (it was registering with an organisation who will need to email me, etc). Only if you ticked the title and surname box did it ask for one.

Quite neat, I thought.

Sorry you didn't get to use the Dr though. Can we call you Dr Annie, or does that make you sound a bit like a US agony aunt? Does it have to be Dr Lobeseder?

Good news: I just did some online shopping at at no point did the website demand a title from me. Usually I am please enough that they include "Ms" as an option, let alone dispense with the whole sorry business altogether.

Bad news: despite this victory for gender equality, I am very disappointed that I didn't get to use my shiny new title!!

I raise at work recently that I see the two new male teachers getting much better mentoring than the new female teacher. One of the new male teachers was straight on it: he raised it as an issue at a meeting and suggested ways to make sure that all the new teachers got the same quality of mentoring. He also is really keen to get home at the end of the day as it is his duty to take care of his kid and do bed time etc and make sure his wife gets a break and some adult conversation with him. He also immediately suggested his wife for some work that was offered to him as she is currently a SAHM and wants to get back into work. They would potentially earn more if he did the work but he wanted to see his wife benefit even if it's at his own personal loss.

It strikes me that he's a genuinely nice guy and I'm very happy that he's teaching my daughter. I hope that his attitude starts to rub off on others. Where I work is pretty good but there is still a bit of a boys club among some of the staff, although they do get called on it as there is no shortage of female leadership figures.

I do think we need to rethink leadership a little to include people who are influential if not powerful. In my school there are a lot of women who provide strong daily role models and have daily contact with the students. By comparison the principal is a bit of a distant figure. In years to come our students will name women as the people who shaped them and inspired them. It's important to recognize that form of leadership as well as the people with the big salaries.

"not training women to be leaders, training men to see women as leaders"

I shall steal this, if you don't mind, Petula!

YY not training women to be leaders, training men to see women as leaders

Did I post my Swedish oncologist example on this thread? I know I brought it up again recently, but forget where. But it more or less matches fibonacci's strategy of what happens when quotas are expected

I certainly know who I would send for fucking training.

"I'm a great ball buster, but it doesn't help me in my career." No. Assertive women are not regarded well. Pushover women are not regarded well. In fact, women are not regarded well. Women who performed femininity are regarded as incompetent. Women who don't perform femininity are regarded as unnatural and disliked. Women who are incompetent are not liked. Women who are competent are unfeminine and therefore unnatural and disliked.

That's what I say to all attempts at sending me to "leadership for women".

I really like the 'paying it forward' idea Fibonacci, thank you.