Does anyone know the article about "prostitute", "sex worker" etc not being the correct terminology

What about women in prostitution through "lover boy" pimps?

< nods >

Yes exactly.

Seven, I agree that we need to specify which groups we're talking about. Sex worker activists point out that people who are forced into prostitution have other laws already covering their situation; kidnap, false imprisonment, rape for example. For those for whom it is illegal to sell sex - children aged under 18 - they are not "child prostitutes" but victims of child sex abuse, and it's important that this is also recognised.

Neither group would be described as "sex workers" by activists.

I got from it that UKP is even worse than a site most posters on this thread know of and think is the pits of the world.

I'm happy with that level of knowledge!

Also there are groups who I'm sure those who prefer the term "sex worker" would not want included in with them. For example I imagine that those who prefer the term "sex worker" would not want those who are being unequivocally exploited or for whom it is illegal to sell sex, included in that term. But when talking about certain groups of people who are engaging in prostitution, those people need to be included, because they form a part of the picture.

So I think specificity is key here really.

Randoms you used to explain what UKP is. The only illumination I got from that is that it was founded by someone who is hateful and misogynistic. Lovely.

That's a fair point OLKN and I suppose means that when discussing this topic people need to be clear about which groups they are referring to and so on.

I would imagine that any reliable stats will make it clear which group they have been drawn from so care with that is in order also.

Like I said + the other points people have raised also.

I suppose it's not so much to do with wording as to do with language used by people on different "sides" and as such there are unlikely to be terms that everyone will agree on, so probably best to be as factual as possible.

So if talking about women working in brothels in X country, or men & women working from the street etc then best to be clear about it.

I think it's quite clear from my post who NIK and BBWClaire are. Just thought a bit of background might have been interesting, but hey ho.

Yes I'm sure they haven't been on Strictly.

Might be best to not go up that particular garden path

Are we supposed to know who NIK and BBWClaire are?

No, we need to address the stigma associated with buying sex.

But that's for another thread (and has been bashed to fuckery on previous ones ...)

I have glanced at PN, after some discussions on here a couple of years ago. My blood pressure is just returning to normal.

So we need to address the stigma associated with selling sex?

"UKP = UKPunting.com, started by NIK a few years back when he was finally banned from PN for his hatespeak, misogyny, and personal (online, not physical) assaults on the female mods on PN, particularly BBWClaire.

If you think PN is bad, don't look, that's all I can say."

Holy crap, that sounds bad.

You see, for me the biggest insult I can think of to apply to someone just at this precise moment is "punter"

I see what you mean, Seven, but one problem is that the word prostitute tends to conjure up images of streetworkers (news articles invariably use models posing in short skirts and high boots, leaning into car windows), and indeed most available research has focussed on that group. However, most prostitution is actually carried out indoors, in brothels or serviced apartments, so stats obtained from streetworkers don't apply, but make prostitution look more dangerous than it actually is, for the majority.

Iyswim.

I shan't be looking at UKP then. I value having the top of head attached to the rest of me.

I thought you might have been talking about UKIP, another set of complete twats but no...

Like many words I would imagine that whatever word you used for people who sell sex it would become used as a slur, it's not the word that's the problem but that people feel negatively about the people it's applied to.

Same as language around people with disabilities, gay people and so on and so forth.

The words won't become "OK" until mainstream society has accepted that there is nothing wrong with whatever it is, new words to replace the unacceptable ones just get turned into slurs too.

Just my opinion there anyway.

UKP = UKPunting.com, started by NIK a few years back when he was finally banned from PN for his hatespeak, misogyny, and personal (online, not physical) assaults on the female mods on PN, particularly BBWClaire.

If you think PN is bad, don't look, that's all I can say.

As I understand it (and touched on upthread) one of the reasons that the term sex workers can be problematical is that it includes a whole raft of people, from people working on webcam to people working dancing/stripping and so on.

So then when you look at statistics it's looking at all of those people many of whom are not in direct contact with the person buying, or contact is limited in some way, and the stats start to look "less bad" than if you are looking at stats purely for people who actually sell sex ie prostitutes.

This can make the conversation a bit foggy where say a person is trying to talk about rates of something which is a high risk for prostitutes but is asked to refer to sex workers instead where then those risks are less across the group.

Don't know if that makes any sense at all!

UKP ?

I see whore as an insult, but prostitute not necessarily.

There was a brief attempt a few years ago to reclaim the word "whore" (even more pejorative than "prostitute") but I don't think it amounted to much, and it's still routinely used as an insult on boards such as UKP.