Girls beating up boys

Really? Feminists shouldn't continually question their own attitudes? We've been brought up with the patriarchy. It's in the very fabric of our being. It's sometimes really hard to see things without the patriarchy-tinted spectacles on. We should never just assume that "what we have always done" is always right.

DD is 16. I just asked her what her response to a creepy comment would be - some guy cat calling her in the street.

She says she would say

"Yeah like you're so sexy"

With a drawl and an eyebrow lift extraordinaire.

I think that's a good response.

"Btw Frau, if any poster had told OP to fuck off, he could report that as a PA."

Fair point. Not as simple as just using "fuck off" really.

I didn't realise if we didn't like a particular put down we had to invent a new one and also educate the entire UK teen population about it.

"But, you know what, Seven, you're a feminist, and you be always said that, so it must be right."

Not nice, Sanity, not nice.

The "teenage girls" are made of straw, actually.

But, you know what, Seven, you're a feminist, and you be always said that, so it must be right.

"Surely, it's their mothers who are being challenged here, to give them better tools?"

Seriously, were you being ironic?

messy, thanks for being more articulate than me!

Sure, that's the immediate meaning. Where it comes from and the language it uses to convey that meaning is a whole different issue. You could just as easily say that when people say 'I'm such a spazz' they mean 'I'm so clumsy' but the language used to convey it comes from a place of discrimination and has ugly connotations.

You keep saying 'these girls' as if the only people using the phrase are teenage girls, and as if the sentiment wasn't used on this thread.

What better tools?

The suggestion on here has been to say "fuck off" instead.

Great.

If the tools to stop all this were available, women and girls the world over would be using them.

I mean observers thinking that the girls meant anything other than go away and leave me alone , in thread before last.

I suppose it's a bit like when adults look at girls and call them " little tarts" out whatever.

I'm not sure the behaviour of the girls or what they say to get people to leave them alone is what we should be focusing on really.

Sorry, rogue apostrophe.

Who's challenging teenage girls? Surely, it's their mother's who are being challenged here, to give them better tools?

I think that Seven and Jassy are both right. Girls say it without meaning it because it's a standard thing to say. It's taught language.

But it definitely shows the underlying attitudes that our society still holds towards women and their sexuality, and the crying shame is that the commodification of one's own body (linguistically or otherwise) is still offered to girls as one of the major ways for them to gain any status or power today.

The lie is of course that such power is not real power at all.

I am boggled at the fact that anyone would even consider "challenging" teenage girls for using whatever tools they have in their armoury against creepy men!

True, Yonic, a direct "fuck off" would be deemed a personal attack.

But, actually, all the bandwagon jumping in the first few threads may well have been what the OP wanted. He or she may someone trying to get fantasy material for a wank, or may be just another goady troll, in which case the reactions were exactly what was wanted.

The derail was actually a really good thing, though, because it looks like it's been very thought provoking for lots of people.

Well the ones I said it to must have got the point because they didn't follow me.

The ones I have seen it said to have left the girls alone as well.

When men think you are opening negotiations they simply ask how much.

And I'm not sure that girls need to be concerning themselves with how creepy men think, as long as what they do gets them to leave them alone.

Like I say changing that phrase could probably be done with time and effort though. And as I have said loads of times it is a problematical phrase for a number of reasons.

I literally had no idea that there were people who took this to mean anything other than go away and leave me alone.

NotDavidTennant - not just this thread.

Are you seriously saying that because a phrase is in common use, its use and meaning shouldn't be discussed or challenged?

This

Seven how do you know what all the men are thinking?

I just don't see the need to bring money or insinuation of money into it at all.

Btw Frau, if any poster had told OP to fuck off, he could report that as a PA.

"Or take away the need for them to say it in the first place which would be the best result"

What you mean, Seven you want creepy men to stop being creepy to young girls? You want to take away their inalienable right to call out pervy comments in the street, you want to censure their freedom of speech....?

How utterly preposterous of you

FrauHelga: "Wouldn't the good faith thing for others not to jump all over me and tell me I shouldn't be posting here?"

Good faith would be to not immediately go to another thread to tell everyone that you've been "shot down" on this thread as an example of how awful the FWR board is. Not really willing to give it a chance, where you?

Bugger, stuffed up the italics.

^so now we have two people on the thread who see children saying you can't afford it to creepy men as opening negotiations!

What is going on here? It is something teenage girls commonly day to creepy men. It does not mean or in any way imply that they are selling sex. The girls know that, and the men they say it to know that.^

Come on, Seven. You know that isn't what people are saying - it's a fuckload more subtle and around the language we use to describe women's bodies versus the language we use to describe men's bodies.

This is a statement derived from the not uncommon idea that women's bodies have a price, whether it's monetary, or 'a husband who will support them' or whatever else. The people using it aren't necessarily (or even likely to be) thinking that because it's been used for ages - but the underlying meaning is there.

Meanwhile, as messy says, the language around men's bodies implies they are superior.

Are you seriously saying that because a phrase is in common use, its use and meaning shouldn't be discussed or challenged?