Girls beating up boys

To clarify (again!) I asked her what she would say if some random man shouted sexual comments at her in the street, not what she would say if she were being sexually harassed in work.

My teenage girls talk to me about this stuff, all the time, Seven.

But I have never suggested that teenage girls be berated for their use of language, just that their parents could, perhaps assist them in finding better language.

And the whole discussion started when AsAMan, who, presumably, is not a teenage girl, used this language. And was asked to consider the language she used.

Which comes back to, how do you change it, how do you stop them.

You'd need to get into schools I think?

I'm not sure that telling girls to say " your attentions are unwelcome" is going to work.

And I'm still really uncomfortable with the girls behavior being the side that is criticised in these encounters.

If horrible men didn't proposition teenagers, this phrase wouldn't be used.

PS. Good luck with your girls Sanity. You could always teach them to swear in French! A good ole "va te faire foutre!" whilst waving your hand is not only elegant but is also educational and makes the creepy man feel like uncultured beast...

...unless you're in France of course!

I don't actually think it's bizarre, it's a firm way if letting the individual know they are not behaving appropriately before you can take it further. As often the excuse is in situations that the perpetrator has some notion they are banging in be perfectly acceptable fashion.

Really? So what my DD says she says isn't realistic?

In work is not the same as being catcalled in the street. In work it is unlikely to be a young teenager, they are going to be 16, and probably 18 and there will be formal procedures in place.

Why is is not realistic for a teenage girl to say something along those lines?

And yes of course it was to report the matter, goes without saying.

That's not realistic for a teenage girl, for a number of reasons.

That's also bizarre for work, if you are being sexually harassed then official guidance should be to report it. whether that is realistic or not is again a question but official guidance should be report it surely.

Messy, I quite like that it's derailed into an interesting and useful (for me, anyway) discussion.

Seven - I asked DD what she would say. She said "yeah like you're so sexy" and that was said with an eyebrow lift and a fuck off and crawl back under your rock drawl.

I'm totally on board with the idea that girls and women of all ages shouldn't be harassed in the first place.

But if this is a phrase that's mainly used by teenage girls, I think it's even worse - sexism is insidious and it's another tiny message to girls and women that their bodies are commodities, because it's what they hear and are ironically enough taught to use to repel pervs.

Guidelines for our work for unwanted attention was just to say

"Your attentions are unwelcome"

I wouldn't like to see a teenager using anything particularly provocative like fuck off etc. in case it escalated the situation.

But most teenage girls don't talk to adults about creepy guys or how to deal with them, or at least they didn't when I was growing up. How to deal was learnt from each other as part of that teen subculture thing.

How should girls deal with creepy guys then, I guess is the million dollar question, taking into account what is realistic for them etc

I feel like OP is up there dangling us like puppets on a string whilst throwing his head back and laughing maniacally!

Still I must go, DS is demanding I get out of bed ....

im not straw manning, messy. RTT. It's exactly what was said.

I haven't said to challenge teenage girls on their use of language, messy. Not sure who did.

I was challenging people on this bread, who I assume are mostly adult men and women to consider the language they use, and to help their children find appropriate language.

I know what someone means by "big girls blouse". It means they are a bit wet and wimpy. It will convey that to most anglophone people. But that doesn't mean that "big, girls blouse" is not sexist language, and shouldn't be challenged.

If a teenage girl (of which I am the mother of 2) needs assistance with dealing with creepy guys, then I would hope that they could be given some stock phrases to use that didn't assume that sex is a commodity, within their meaning.

I wasn't attacking NotDavidTennant - I was explaining why I found the post rude and offensive.

I don't think her post was particularly attacking, she was upset/offended at the post and said so.

Sanity, no one said that. Now you are strawmanning.

I feel like we all agree with each other anyway! No one here wants teenage girls to be harrassed, fullstop. Can we all agree to blame it on the big P?

FrauHelga: You were complaining of being "shot down" on this thread though. As far as I can see you've done as much "shooting down" of people on this thread as anyone else has.

I mean, you didn't even give AsAMan the benefit of the doubt, did you? Just went straight in on the attack.

And frankly, the idea that the mass rape of teenage girls in this country iwas due to lack of pithy put downs, is bizarre.

I think the point is, Jassy, is how we react when we are challenged on the things we say unthinkingly. I challenged a friend at work the other day for using the word "special" as an insult. I explained that it was a word used to upset my autistic DS all the time. He was very apologetic. We hugged. It was lovely.

But I don't think it's the teenage girls (who most definitely are not a strawman Sanity) who need challenging but the ones who feel entitled to ogle and harrass in the first place.

I'm not talking "as a feminist" I'm talking as someone who used to be a teenage girl and who heard this phrase used by friends who were being harassed and who used it occasionally myself.

The focus of this thread of how girls should or shouldn't behave when harassed by older men feels all wrong to me.

And I asked her if she would say "you can't afford me" - she says not.

I asked her has she ever said "you can't afford me" - she says not.

Maybe we are stuck in our generational responses and the young girls of today are developing their own language of response?

I can only speak from my own experience and that is that this is a phrase used by teenagers. Girls in that age group where they start getting harassed, at about 13.

I have only heard adults say it a couple of times and those times felt like an auto reaction to something they learned to say when younger iyswim.

I stopped saying it at about 16 or 17 as did most of my friends, for the reasons on this thread. Because I started to understand what it meant.