Girls beating up boys

I subscribe to the notion that female bodies are not for sale. Ever. Hence me thinking "you can't afford it" is a "problematic" put down.

And I absolutely and unequivocally condemn activities such as trafficking. Thinking one does not exclude the other.

And there is a big difference between what a young teenager says in the heat of the moment when a man is behaving in an unacceptable way by shouting at her in the street, and what is typed by an adult woman on a forum on the internet.

Okay, fine. It's problematic.

So, I'm guessing that you, as a grown woman on an Internet forum, will think twice before using it again.

And none of us will berate our teenage daughters for saying whatever they have to say or do to get themselves out of the frightening situation of being accosted on the street by a creepy man. (Which is, I think you'll agree, an entirely different scenario.)

You are so desperate to defend your right to say "you can't afford it", without actually thinking what that phrase really means.

You're right, I'm just so desperate to defend my right to say it and I'm just not clever enough to see there is anything wrong with it. Zark too.

Some comments made upthread about "you can't afford it" being problematic I can see your point -ASAMAN

Ok so I get that "you can't afford it mate" is generally a bit problematical -sevenzarkseven

Y'know, no one is saying that a woman or a girl shouldn't say "you can't afford it", because that would be offensive to the creepy male. I am merely suggesting you consider what you are actually saying, ie that if they could afford a big number, you might go for it, because, like other women, you are for sale.

And I don't really think you believe that all women are for sale in that way, so why are you so desperate to say it?

Seven and AsAMan, I'm somewhat taken aback by your responses.

You are so desperate to defend your right to say "you can't afford it", without actually thinking what that phrase really means.

Well, knock yourselves out. I'm not stopping you from saying it.

I did wonder why so many people felt they could speak for you,

Because they knew what I was saying? I was using English not interpretive dance, correct? it was hardly a fucking subtle putdown.

What was a really odd remark? That I don't think validating a sexual harasser with the comment "that has made me uncomfortable" is useful?

You and sanity both seem to be responding to something i haven't actually said. It's not about the harassers comfort, I was pointing out that they were trying to cause discomfort to the woman. So we don't need to say, "actually I really don;t like that". They know you don't like that because they are trying to make you feel that way

disengaging with you now because I sense goadiness.

It is deeply out of order to say that all the women on this thread who have disagreed with you, subscribe to the idea that female bodies are for sale all the time.

I get the feeling that you are enjoying being really quite nasty.

To accuse women on a feminist board of supporting activities such as trafficking because they refuse to condemn children for their use of language when they are sexually harassed by strangers is just such a horrible accusation that I don't think you even believe it. I think you are trying to get a rise out of people which is up to you, but bloody hell, what a thing to say.

My 15yo DD, Yonic, not niece.

And I think Jassy has put it very well. I don't give a shit about the recipient of the put down, but am not happy with subscribing to the idea that women's bodies are always for sale.

AsAMan, as you've read the thread you will know that very few posts were actually about you and why you weren't answering. I did wonder why so many people felt they could speak for you, however. But it seems clear that lots of people agree with you that it's fine to say that women's bodies are always for sale, but that the price might be too high, because that's a "pithy put down".

I disagree with them.

However, if that was the only thing that came to mind in the heat of the moment having been accosted by a perry male on the street, then it's understandable. I think that using the same "pithy put down" on an Internet forum, when you have a little more time to consider your response, is more problematic, though.

No - I was agreeing with you. The person on the receiving end of the comment is the pervy male. I don't care whether they're 'comfortable' or not, and neither has anyone else in the lengthy discussion on this thread. It was a really odd remark, tbh.

I honestly don't give a shit if it's comfortable for the person on the receiving end.

Not sure what you mean by that, you don't care if a woman is made uncomfortable by sexual harassment?

I've read the thread so realise it has been "well thrashed out". I'm responding to the 200 or so posts about something I said though. And the probably 50 posts wondering where I was and what did I actually think.

AsAMan, I honestly don't give a shit if it's comfortable for the person on the receiving end. I think it's problematic from a feminist perspective that it's considered ok and even praiseworthy for women and girls to be talking about themselves and their bodies in a commodified sense. It's been pretty well thrashed out in the thread.

Agree that the go home dad comment is excellent. And you know what? It focuses the comment on the perpetrator.

Go home dad...you're drunk"

that however is excellent.

Quite. Where is AsAMan? Why are so many posters defending him/her? Why has s/he not come on to expand or apologise? Why do lots of posters seem to know exactly what s/he meant, when s/he hasn't posted since that first time?

Holy Fucking hell. Godforbid I not be on Mumsnet and actually get out of the house. I won't "defend" myself because anyone who isn't trying to pick an argument and pretend anyone gives a tiny fuck about their sexual inclination would see exactly what I meant. If you want to be a special precious snowflake about your sex life, go right ahead. I literally do not give one whole fuck what people do consensually in their bedrooms. or in an alley/hottub/ allotment.

Some comments made upthread about "you can't afford it" being problematic I can see your point but I also feel like in the real world saying "I am not comfortable with that statement" (or whatever was mentioned as an alternative upthread) is not useful because you are not supposed to be comfortable with their statement. They are trying to make you uncomfortable and you don't need to acknowledge hat it has worked.

So I answer back in their language (as better explained by yonic, seven and several other posters as well)

Ooh, I like it.

But it could be construed as ageist...

Sanity, I'm sure you wouldn't want your 15 yr old niece walking round threatening to bite boys in the penis, but as a "self defence" to an intrusive response, it was fine. As with the "how much" discussion, the man, if he was an extra level of creep, could've said "yeah baby, I like it rough" if he had been determined enough to force his agenda.

On another thread a put down someone had heard was

"Go home dad...you're drunk"

I like that one

I'm 45 and don't get cat called anymore but I'm saving it!!!!

Witty responses may turn away wrath when Fuck off creep would not.

sanity!

So, I've just mentioned this thread to DD1 who is 15. She related this to me.

SHe was sitting alone at a busstop, eating a banana, which was part of her lunch. A passing man made a comment that she could do that to him, after. She just looked at him... and deliberately bit the top off the banana.

Well I only have sons, so I'll be doing my bit for other girls!

Already had to pull them up on the 'girls can't do X' comments. They start it early!!!!!

"But if I'm talking to my cousin or niece or a poster on this thread, I might say 'hey, that's a weird phrase when you think about it' and have a chat about it."

Thinks that's exactly the right thing to do, and have enjoyed the debate around it.

There's definitely pros and cons to the phrase.

That would be extremely good. Though even better if all men were raised and socialised not to be predatory.

There is a tool kit - its called Self Defence classes.....

yackity and of course is only used in relative safety, more than one girl and when other people around.

You'd never use it if no one else were around.

I really wish there was a tool kit for girls and women against predatory men. That would be ace.

Sorry, total cross post, Seven.

Yackity, that sneer can accompany other words, right? I don't get the defence of this phrase.