Lurkers ahoy! Friendly thread to dip your toe in the murky seas of feminism

Except I feel I am cutting my nose off to spite my face with my stance on marriage. Dp would happily get married, just registry office etc, we are not religious and see no need for fancy stuff or spending lots of money. We would both rather spend it on the house/nice holiday. And ultimately it does afford me greater protection.

I would keep my name though!

I do think it would be a nice thing to do as the madthings are getting older so they can be a part of it iyswim? It's just a shame that it is so steeped in patriarchy and ownership.

So many little things that signify male superiority, I don't know if you are aware but when you register your baby as a couple the man's signature must go first on the bit where both parents sign the birth certificate. Dp had a big debate with the registrar who basically said if I signed it first therefore dps signature would be second on the line that they would have to rip up the certificate and start again! The man's signature must go first. Obviously if you register on your own it will be the woman, though if you are married and take wedding certificate to put husbands name on I think his name still then goes first!!

Nope it's something we have thought of but not got round to. We have sorted out wills, insurances, mortgages etc so I am covered financially and we have a joint account and I have my own account. It's annoying I would quite happily have a civil partnership but I do resent what marriage stands for iyswim.

duelling

DH does it

I'm more than capable of doing it...just can't be arsed

I don't think being a lazy cow is a feminist issue...it might be I suppose it's not like anyone is stopping me because I'm a woman

I don't clean toilets either...again I would if I had to and I am capable of it...I just don't want to

Oh, I think I found the thread - if lots of women come on Mumsnet why are so few on the FWR threads?

Thanks cailin but I have to say I do not do everything. Obviously when dp is out at work I do, and he does shift work with long and odd hours. But when he is at home He is 110% hands on, he cooks more than I do, does laundry, packed lunches, helps with homework, does school runs etc etc. Basically when he is at work I am 'working' but once he is at home we both pitch in to get what needs doing done. That includes the madthings, four boys who will not be raised to have women do everything so they cook, tidy etc and are basically being trained in how to run a household. And it's very much the expectation/rule that everyone pitches in, we are a family and that's what we do.

Dp def appreciates what I do. I often despair reading comments on mnet about women who do it all and their husband's who don't/won't pull their weight. And the men don't notice/don't see it etc. It's just bollocks!

I think we were lucky in that we had ds1 young, whilst at uni, but we hadn't got engrained habits about housework we were both learning! And as we were both students we were both around when ds1 was tiny, he saw just how hard it was and we both muddled along together.

Obviously He couldn't do the bfeeding, over ten years of bfeeding including some through preg and tandem feeding but he def appreciated how relentless it is and how groundhog day it can be. That's not to say he is perfect, we have had our moments including almost splitting up as he could be moody but it's something we have worked out. I say worked out I made it clear I wouldn't put up with it.

I do see the value in what I do but when some family members don't agree with your parenting choices/styles and say you are wasting your education... It can sting and I have seen discussion on here about it. But yes to it being imp, and for myself as a feminist I want to raise my daughter well but I really want to raise the four madboys to be good men, decent people and I worry about the media and socialization etc.

[stands on chair and applauds Cailin madly]

A man with a SAH wife is the one who should be grateful. The fellow adult who has thrown her lot in with him has voluntarily chosen to make herself vulnerable and cut herself off from status so that his children can be excellently cared for day in and day out by someone who loves them more than anyone in their entire lives will ever love them. Not only that, but SAHMs are trained to believe that looking after children is "nothing" and so the man has the added luxury of a woman who feels obliged to wash his socks, cook his dinners and generally be his maid. He has the untold luxury of having children without any physical demands (as he does not experience pregnancy, childbirth or breastfeeding) and additionally to have those children raised by the the absolute best childcare available while he continues his career and doesn't even have to cook his own food or clean his own house. The SAHM meanwhile, is devalued, made to feel she's "doing nothing," and if the man decides to up and leave one day, she's up shit creek without a paddle.
Be a SAHM but be aware that what you are doing has a lot of sacrifice and risk involved. Demand that that is valued and recognised.

The next time a SAHM/WOHM pops up, someone paste this! It really does say it all.

Why don't you put petrol in the car?

Hi, thanks for this nice unscary thread!

I'm a feminist but I feel as if I keep getting things wrong. I posted about name change on marriage (admittedly in AIBU so I suppose it's my own fault) and then I felt like I was put in the dunce's corner for saying "maiden name" and for wanting to debate it with my fiance instead of just telling him, and even for raising it in the first place. What's wrong with wanting him to see my point of view and asking for help to put it in a way he will "get it"? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2149385-To-want-to-keep-my-maiden-name

Have I missed "that" AIBU thread you're all mentioning? Could someone pls link it or say what the title is?

Fat fingers now. - should be "in a high profile case" and "no man".

Got told by a friend that I'd put feminism back a hundred years because I don't put petrol in the car!!

Did make me laugh...ish

cailindana: actually I do happen to think that in a high profile like this Evan's girlfriend lets down all women by her total lack of self respect.
And likewise I think Evans lets down all men by being a complete and utter knob.

When I read about a woman like that I feel embarrassed to be female and my DH actually said to me that when he read about Evans he felt embarrassed to be male.

"No men is an island" etc etc (no woman either).

I'm an equal opportunities ranty blamer me!

agree that fb etc have a negative influence, but I honestly think that the internet and sites like MN in particular will have a massively positive effect on feminism. The opportunity for women to come together and openly discuss their views and feelings without men curtailing, criticising, belittling etc is unprecedented and will have far reaching effects IMO.

Thanks very much for this thought cailindana, it's a much more positive way to view it, and gives me a bit of peace and perspective. I had been a bit glass half empty (or completely empty!) about it, but you are right that social media can be positive as well. This thread being one such example.

I think you are describing the experience of feeding and mothering a baby very evocatively. 'Relentless' being particularly fitting.

Lurker and occasional poster marking place. Am going to add some of the suggested reads to my Xmas list.

Am another poster who feels slightly out of my depth intellectually on these threads at times, I think it's partly a self confidence issue for me which is odd as I come across as a confident/outgoing person in rl and I am generally.

My question/wondering would be about the sahm/wahm issue. I personally don't care what people do as long as it works for them and their families. I think it is or should be down to each family to decide what works for them... But obviously society, economic situation etc affects all these 'choices' and many women don't have a choice.

I myself have/am a sahm and it's a role that I love, that exhausts me at times and I am ref feeling ready/excited/nervous of doing something new as the madthings get older. But I have a niggling feeling/worry that being a sahm is seen as letting the side down, not feminist etc. I guess like some industries it's the wider impact of your role, the message it sends? Sorry an waffling and being distracted by small people.

'What are the reasons for women staying with arseholish men do you think Down?'

I think every unhappy woman in a dysfunctional relationship has her own reasons for not wanting or being able to leave. Cultural, financial, self worth, dependency, fear of being without a man, conviction that she can change things if she loves him enough...a million different combinations for sadness.

Wow cailin, that is great.
I stopped bfing a couple of years ago (after doing it for about 3 years, but they were different dcs) and I still feel tired from it. I went back to work with b-fed babies, both times, for a while I was pregnant, bf-ing and working, and it really all sort of piled up back there and I don't think I can really talk about that now as it is 2 years ago that I stopped so I should be over all that, but... I don't feel over it. I wouldn't admit this in real life