Red lipstick - a feminist dilemma?

Let's just say it wasn't very MN-y. Not sure how much I'm allowed to repost without getting it deleted again, but it was an insensitive comment and not really in keeping with the thread.

It was about "lips" and men.

I wear lots of different coloured lipstick. I get the most comments about when it matches my clothes rather than the particular shade

I wore dark purplish lipstick today.

One (female) colleague said it looked nice.

Nobody else said anything or behaved any differently.

I'm a bit disappointed.

I'm too paranoid about lipsticky teeth to smile at anyone when glammed up so it's all a bit counter productive. Plus my mouth is a weird shape because I fell off a horse onto a fence back in the Jurassic ...

However if it makes you feel like a winner slosh it on!

Thanks!

Here's Sali Hughes on why being interested in lipstick is not incompatible with being interested in other things as well.

That marked Vs unmarked article was excellent by the way.

If I ever do dark lips I use this stuff - once it's on, it won't move.

My too Feck. Is this a new type of stealth product advertising?

Am I the only one who wants to know the brand and shade of this lipstick?

(Totally missing the point I know)

I was thinking the same as Lorelei - you may be behaving differently (more confident, more outgoing, smiling at people more) when wearing the lipstick.

Treating people differently based on how they dress and how they choose to present themselves to the world is something that is done both by and to men and women.

When we choose what to wear in the mornings, a part of what makes the decision is the thought "how do I want people to perceive me and treat me?"

Men tend in most situations to have more of a "uniform" - there is a default that says "I am a neutral person doing neutral things, make no particular assumptions about me", whereas women don't have that.

There's a really interesting essay here on marked vs unmarked choices.

Not sure. Blokes tend on average to have inbuilt advantages in some situations - simply more physical presence because of size, louder voices etc. So maybe heels or a bit of bold lippy is just redressing the balance a bit?

I read somewhere that wearing red lipstick in interviews means you are more likely to get the job - something to do with confidence I think as red is a strong colour so women wearing it appear stronger and more confident?

They do always say confidence is attractive, maybe that's it?

Hmmm, this is interesting. Its definitely possible to be a lipstick wearing feminist. And I only ever wear heels. I used to work in a very sexist and male dominated industry (hedgefunds) and there's no doubt glamorous women were treated better. Objectified and patronised? Yes. Were the men more receptive to them and so they could work more efficiently? Most definitely.

I even wore 4 inch heels when 8 months pregnant to work- I couldn't be seen to have 'let myself go'. I think red lipstick has long been linked to the seductress/'whore'/bad girl. If the virgin/whore dichotomy were make-up looks they would be red lipstick/natural look. I imagine it is the new sense of confidence that attracts people rather than the lipstick itself.

"Can one be a lipstick toting, high-heeled feminist"

Yes.

We all live inside the society we're born into - I don't see it as problematic to manage a situation shaped by others' preconceptions if you do it knowingly. Personally I've always taken the view that any advantage I can take without compromising myself I will take.

I think it's all in the attitude. If you wear the lipstick purely to make men look at you and treat you differently then it seems wrong. If you wear it because you think it looks pretty, then I suppose it's still playing into the traditional ideas about women and appearance, but on your own terms.

Sounds about right to me.

I cringed when that woman on The Apprentice advised her all female team to wear short skirts and a bit of lippy to make more sales. I hate the thought that people buy from women they find attractive and from men who are knowledgable.

I think it's all in the attitude. If you wear the lipstick purely to make men look at you and treat you differently then it seems wrong. If you wear it because you think it looks pretty, then I suppose it's still playing into the traditional ideas about women and appearance, but on your own terms.

There's no disputing that some of us look better, healthier, more striking etc with make up on (similarly I prefer my DP with a bit of a stubble and a nice haircut) so don't feel that wearing the lipstick in itself is anti-feminist.

You want to make the best of yourself in the same way that we all wash and brush our hair, wear clean smart clothes and present ourselves as best we can. I love red lipstick and used to wear it all the time, it was my 'thing', but since getting together with dp I don't wear it as I'm always kissing him!

When I do wear it now, I feel more confident and 'polished' and dp often comments that I seem happy or glowing, without necessarily realising why he thinks that. It has magical properties I'm sure