Is it OK to have a career rant here?

Your charmed life is hardly indicative of how us mere mortals live Green, lovely though it must have been for you.

We're talking about real life experiences here. And normal people.

I chair conferences all the time, wrote 30 books, fairly well known in my field etc. How did that happen? Know I'm good. Tell people I'm good. Do good work. Accept all the offers to go on TV, radio and that stuff.

I tried deliberately to put on a conference which has 100% women speakers this autumn. I put forward four women including me to speak at it. I am pleased we have ended up with 50% women at least. I would have been even happier had we had 100%. I will keep trying.

You have to be able to make the effort. That might mean a taxi at 5am to go on Radio 4 or leaving at 4am to catch an early flight. Those things are hard whether you are male or female. We tend to reap what we sow in life.

All keep telling people how brilliant you are and ask for more pay. Women don't do that enough. I notice at conference too far too many women saying they might be wrong or they think something rather than that they know it. You do need to observe yourself and work at it. You are the only person who will ultimately b e totally loyal to you and recognise all the hard work you have put in, no one else will. If someone has to rush home to see a child or clean the floors let that be your husband. Never tolerate for a day sexism in the home. This is the route to happiness plus a lot money and a good career.

I like the phrase 'prioritising wellbeing over the fight'. I think I've just done that today - decided not to apply for a job I was being nudged towards, despite my current job being about to disappear, because I think doing it would make me and my family unhappy.

I think it's going to have a negative impact on my career, and I'm not really sure how I feel about it. Relieved that I won't be doing the job (which I think confirms that it was the right decision), but also wondering whether I've let the side down a bit.

I'm in a very female-dominated profession, very academic (but not academia), and yes, the very top spots are taken by men, but the big divide I see is between women who have children and women who don't. I had my 2 DC late (38 and 41), and before that, I was in early, stayed late, went to loads of conferences, volunteered for committees and projects, etc, and enjoyed it.

I'm now at quite a high level, and love my job, but I struggle to do it within my contracted hours. I no longer have the luxury of travelling whenever I want to, which has repercussions as I can't stay on top of my field, and I don't have time to volunteer for anything. My DH is hugely supportive so I travel more than other women with children at my level, but none of us can compare with the women who don't have children, and I see them moving away at an alarming pace. I just can't keep up, because I want to spend time with my family. It's frustrating and demoralising.

50- something career woman here, empathising and with words of hope and encouragement. In my early 30s I too was driven to tears of resentment as I saw male friends and my own DH forging ahead as I treaded water, relocated with DH's career and tried hard to keep in the game with 2 small DC's, no work-permit, travelling DH, etc. Fast forward 2 decades, and I've been in interesting, fulfilling and very well-paid jobs for the last 15 years. Earn more than DH. I know that workplaces aren't fair, and I've seen enough subtle and overt discrimination, unconscious bias and just plain bad practice, but i still believe if you REALL? want it, you can have it. But it is hard work, involves other sacrifices and eating more than a few mouthfuls of shit. (Which btw I think men also have to eat). Some things I did: always worked, even when it was almost for nothing or very part-time; went on every course going; went back to do a Masters when kids were 2 and 4; kept networks alive; got an au pair when both kids were at school and until they were self-sufficient;in my late 30s took a pay cut to get into a new business with more opportunities but which involved lots of time away; did some good, open contracting with DH about balancing our late evenings home/business travel (not perfect of course, lots of trading and many arguments, but in the main it worked); got myself a good mentor at work; took some big risks (commuted to another country for 18 months); worked bloody hard to earn strong negotiating rights for when I needed flexibility.

I missed school plays, but not all of them, and probably other special childhood moments, but my DCs, now 20 and 22, are independent, well-adjusted kids, my DH and I are happy together after 30 years and the four of us get along great.

I don't want to sound smug, just that reading OP's post so reminded me of my own frustrations....please don't give up yet!!

Lol, I don't bark orders Buffy - I'm RAF (aircraft engineer).

Will probably end up waving my (huge!) willy as a lollipop lady when I leave!

The worst thing about academics though is that they're all liberal so they are convinced they can't possibly be sexist.

I'm military and I've noticed this too - as I've come to a senior rank the number of women drop off alarmingly; I had children at 27 & 30 and have done well despite that, but now I'm tired.

I'm tired of having to 'willy wave', I'm tired of fighting back, I'm tired of every day being a challenge (the work is not exactly challenging, it's the men and their attitude towards women who have the temerity to think they're 'equal').

The men around me don't have to fight to be heard or taken seriously and I'm not interested in flying the flag for women any more.

I'm 40 in a few months, I have 2.5 years left until I qualify for immediate pension and I can't wait! (I have no clue what I will do when I leave and I don't care - I am just excited about a new path in life).

I'm in my early 40s and this makes me very angry too.
My career got unmanageable for various reasons and I left so I thought 'ok, I made that choice, other women I know are better at it/more determined/have more immediate family support.'
Then I was astonished and appalled to see that the super-talented, dedicated women - the ones who leaned in - weren't doing that well any more either. It was more of a shock to see that than what happened to me was, in a way, because I could always write myself off by saying 'oh well I must have been crap at it.'

I had a moment a few years ago when I was watching tv and several people I knew from teens/student days appeared on tv. One was having a symphony performed at the proms, one was a Tory MP, one had written a book.... They were all male. And as it happened, they had all been to public school.
Not that they weren't talented, but so were the women I knew (I went to a superselective girls' grammar, for a start) and where were they?

Buffy - I entirely empathise with your desire for worthwhile achievements to be recognised and rewarded on their own merits without the need for endless PR and/or backstabbing. But I think that this is one of womankind's major problems in the world of work. You cannot win the game by unilaterally changing the rules to make them more moral.

I see this amongst my friends now as we head through late 30s to early 40s. Often it's women who gave managed DC1 fine, but don't come back after DC2. Or who drop their hours and slowly drift into obscurity. Or who relocate for the sake of their DH's career and never quite get back on the roller coaster again

It's never the men

Sorry I didn't mean to suggest it was weakness driving it.

I agree with you that collaborative approaches make women stronger and are often / usually better ways of working. I guess it's just that sometimes I think there is a lion chasing us in the workplace. Or maybe it's like we're all in a hot air balloon and someone is going to be pushed out every now and again. by metaphors

I see what you mean Buffy I think that's why women have to be better than men to reach the same place. You still need to outrun your colleagues to keep ahead of the lion but you don't want to achieve that by tripping up someone else?

I've been waiting for this thread. I thought it was just in my sector.

Yes, I have THE RAGE too.

Nobber blokes promoted out of the ball park. Women not promoted for years.

I am in my early forties and took around ten years out of my career having kids in my twenties and thirties. In fact I never went back to my previous career. I knew it meant starting at the beginning again. I tried to work in an office and was overlooked at every turn despite spending the years showing my worth. I now work freelance for myself and would avoid working in that environment again. I have self respect now and no man to answer to or defend my self from. I also have anonymity and can avoid being treated in a certain way because of my looks or my clothes.

Buffy you are exactly right about being told we can do everything, all equal etc. We were also told employers would need to have the best people at every level, regardless of their sex. In most organisations, that's untrue. Most organisations have lots of people in junior roles and few people in senior roles. IMO for most jobs there are more people who could do the senior jobs well than there are senior jobs. So the employer can take into account other factors and still get someone good enough.

ItsGot I see the same thing in my field. It's hard to express without being accused of sour grapes. We're socialised to be happy with our lot and I think many women deal with it by focussing on the positives - spending time with kids etc - and blocking out the negatives. It's often said that the men are devoting all their time to their work but I don't see that. I see lots of men doing things that are not work related but very time-consuming in their spare time. That's all considered admirable but being perceived as someone who wants to spend their spare time with their kids is not.

Buffy I don't know how things work in academia but I'd be careful of opting out of the willy-waving if you do want to make it to the next level, unless you can see a path for non willy-waving women to make that step. I'm sure you don't need my advice but I would say I very naive (not saying you are, at all) about how things worked in that step between men and women in equal numbers and all the women disappearing.