Hear ye, hear ye! You're doing feminism wrong.

The writer never said that the way Western women in political life were treated was okay. The article, as far as I can tell, is about why certain issues (including that one) are given so much priority over other issues in feminism.

I believe that is the case and it is a very serious problem.

I also think there is a conflation here of abhorrent acts and abhorrent views. Cutting benefits to single mothers is an act, not just having an opinion. She is directly harming other women.

Flora, the politician in question is supporting warlords in Afghanistan. This was mentioned both in the article in question and in my post that you responded to. There is nothing ridiculous about my questioning why you feel it is a feminist act to devote time to advocate for the right to authority for such a woman, who is supporting men who murder women over their clothes.

I did not say she was murdering women. I said she was supporting men who did. I have nade very few posts on this thread, so feel you misrepresenting what I said by a. Taking my quote about authority, which I made in the context of discussing genocidal acts, out of context and b. By suggesting I said a woman who murdered women when I did not.

Glosswitch is wonderful.

Flora, any woman who is looking at a situation where a woman is supporting men who are going to murder women over trivia such as their attire, but finds the chilling part to be that the woman in question is also judged (but not murdered) for things like their attire has some very warped priorities.

Plenty of feminists from Asian backgrounds are going to find the response of white women on this chilling.

It's like worrying about a BNP supporter experiencing racial slurs. No, it shouldn't happen, but it is rather trivial in the overall discussion of racism.

Ace reply.

I think I love Glosswitch :-)

glosswitch's excellent response

glosswatch.com/2014/10/28/when-a-man-tells-me-how-to-do-feminism/

The other thing is that if you genuinely believe women have an equal right to a political voice on the world stage, you can't then put caveats on it to say "but only those ones whose policies I agree with."

Yes, Gillard has a whole list of anti-feminist decisions under her belt. So do a lot of male politicians. An incredible number of male politicians. Arguably, given their track record, mst, in fact. Do I, or the author of the article, have a magic wand to get rid of those male politicians? No. So why single out Gillard? Where is his article calling male politicians on their appalling record on women's rights?

he seems to be saying that until feminism presents him with the perfect feminist (by his standards) he's going to criticise the movement

Apparently feminism will be held to the same impossible standards as women.

By men.

There is an unbelievable arrogance (as well as complete lack of sensitivity) in a man who thinks it is his place to dispense "tough love" to a women's movement.

Has he no sense of irony?

Most women are no strangers to "tough love", some of it tough to the point of death, from men.

If men could keep their "tough love" to themselves, women as a group would be a lot better off. And a lot more of us would be alive.

If he wants to help, then fine.

But until he can keep his bossy sense that he has a thing or two to teach women how to be feminists, he can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

Yy PG.

i don't disagree with all of what he says

but he seems to be saying that until feminism presents him with the perfect feminist (by his standards) he's going to criticise the movement and not turn his attention to helping fight all those things he thinks are important (and which i don't disagree with as a list)

a feminist act on his part would be to give his platform over to some of those under-represented women

The Pankhursts were called out for being white, posh and British. Sylvia Pankhurst was repeatedly called a white devil. She experienced a lot of guilt about this and it made her committed to working for the poor and colonised.

There was massive infighting between Emmeline and Sylvia. Emmeline got a lot of stuff wrong.

That article is not criticising people for being posh or middle class. It is criticising members of those groups for acting in their own interests.

I agree with a lot of what he says. It isn't about if a woman calls herself a feminist or not, it is about feminist actions. A woman who goes to Syria to lead a unit that will round up other women to take them to brothels to be raped is not carrying out a feminist act simply by being in a position of power. A woman who cuts benefits for mothers and sides with warlords who destroy human rights with women as specific targets is not acting in a feminist way.

Some of this is genocide aimed at women. To give women equal opportunities to support genocide that targets women is not feminism anymore than Nazis putting trusted Jews in positions of responsibility in concentration camps makes the Holocaust less antisemitic.

A lot of the current popular feminism is doing it wrong, including Penny. Feminism should be about finding solutions and power structures that collectively empower women. It is not feminism to support or advocate for anti feminist women to be in positions of authority.

And, he's right, Gillard's government didn't do much to help women, however, that STILL doesn't mean she should have just put up and shut up with the level of abuse she got.

Yup Asteria, nothing unequal here, you're quite right. And feminists eh? Nothing but hairy angry wimminz. I get ya. All that wimminz liberation malarkey, pfft, they need to be sorting out men's problems too.

Some of the content of the article itself isn't too bad. He does mention subjects which no one could argue are serious and which need to be sorted. I think he even came at it from what he believes is a helpful and thoughtful angle, but.... If he honestly thinks that feminists haven't been working on those things for years, then he needs to go and give his head a wobble. However, in his defence, if he's been reading Laurie Penny and seeing her as some kind of misunderstood and unheard radical feminist, then it's not surprising he thinks women haven't thought of those things properly!

This is a perfect example of the stupid lefty infighting that cripples most progressive/radical movements.

If idiots like this had wasted everyone's time 'calling out' Emmeline Pankhurst and the other sufragettes for being posh, perhaps we still wouldn't have the vote. Because that would be a great achievement in the fight for equality

That's the meme, Flora. You're also right about him only wanting to support women who share his political views. I think his argument can be summarised as "Gillard is right of centre. I am left (and correct about all things). Gillard self-identifies as a feminist. Therefore all feminists are wrong." Which is of course a logically fallacious argument.

The Laura Penny think had not escaped my notice either!

Oops!

He's also forgotten female leaders represent their party - I'm sure a male conservative leader would've tried to break the mires' strike too.

It's not like there's masses of female alternatives vying for the democrat nominations.

It's not like there are legions of women as likely as HRC to get the Democrat nomination but those NORTY feminist liters are picking HRC cos she's pro war...