Female body hair / husband- help?

they do give a flying fuck - the OP is trying to find something that she can show to her DH that will show him how other men have supported their wives in not removing hair. but she can't find anything because so far all her searches have resulted in "articles along the lines of 'eww, gross, if your partner loved you, she'd shave blah blah'."

FuckOffFerret I don't give a tiny fck if you DON'T shave, it doesn't stop people starting threads about it though. So you're allowed to harp on about your reasons for not shaving, but don't anyone dare say they do shave. It seems lots of people on this thread think that the world is against them for choosing not to shave, when in reality no one gives a flying fuck!

Blueberry and fakebook, no one give a tiny fuck if you shave. Everyone is trying to explain that you have been influenced by current culture (which in the west) is porn dominated.

When you turned 11 or 12 or whenever it is girls start to shave, you decided to shave your legs. Because that is what women do. Not because you suddenly thought oooh wouldn't my legs feel smooth!

Your male siblings didn't suddenly worry about their leg hair, did they?

There are hundreds of threads on MN about little girls saying they are being teased should they be allowed to shave. That is societal pressure from the start. Maybe they then decide they like the feeling but the point is they would never have even considered it if they hasn't done it in the first place.

Your swim suits will be shaped so that pubic hair pops out, so you will shave that to avoid people seeing pubes hanging out your costume. Your male friend's have a more generously cut suit so it doesn't matter.

Your head would be smoother than a cue-ball if you shaved it. Why haven't you shaved your massively hairy head?

Fakebook - practically all decisions a person makes are influenced by society. Women don't suddenly wake up one day and say "ooh I'd like smooth legs" - they see their mums shaving, they see ads for razors on tv, they notice that women on the beach have hairless legs. Human behaviour isn't random, if it were there's be chaos. We all follow what society expects.

It seems a bit naive to think that we are completely uninfluenced by our family, our friends, TV, film, advertising, our upbringing, religion (if any, our ethnicity, our economic status.

That we are islands. (John Donne said 'No man is an island.' Though in this case 'Woman' might be more appropriate.

Yes, we do have individual personalities and tastes - which may be a result of out genes as much as our environment. But I'd say that right from the moment of birth other people influence us - and that most of us do long for acceptance and approval. If we cannot get approval from mainstream society, we find subgroups who will support us and affirm us.

"It's not a feminist choice, but as least I know that."

I think that is the point. It's all about informed choices.

i find it odd that when some women are saying that they depilate and feel that it is because of socialisation and external influences relating to society's ideas of "femininity" and ideals of women's appearances, and they would like to explore that at a society level, they are told by other women that they can't talk about that because it's personally offensive to women who feel they have made the choice to depilate freely and without external influence

I find it odd how when women say they shave through personal choice, they're being told, no it's because they've been influenced by a society to do it. I think its really patronising and almost manipulative to keep telling someone the same thing over again like they don't know their own mind! I'd like to think women know exactly what they want/like in this day and age without being brainwashed at a subconcious level into doing things. So when women say they shave because they like the feeling/it's smooth, it really is that. There's no reason to belittle her thoughts and tell her she's wrong.

Yes Blueberry

Cailindana, I'm curious, do you get hair cuts?

that was to blueberry, sorry

it's not necessarily the reason, or the only reason, why you depilate pubic hair, but it may be one reason why other people do, or why it has become more prevalent in recent years. you don't have to have direct experience of cultural/social changes yourself for what is seen as "normal" to permeate through to your own preferences. there may be lots of other reasons, many of which have been brought up on this thread

if you don't think it's worth exploring why more women do this than men, then that's fine. it's not compulsory. but many feminists do find it useful to explore this. it's a bit daft of you to take such personal offence; many women on this thread, myself included, depilate and do so acknowledging that the socialisation and external influence drives us to see this as more desirable, that smooth is more comfortable, more acceptable etc

it doesn't sound like that to me, more like the proliferation of waxing salons and the demand for them has increased in keeping with the ever more accessible porn, just sort of infiltrating and informing our choices far less directly

but am not wholly persuaded it is that simple, it's a two way street and porn reflects what's going on in society - not really thinking of minge fur here as much as our relative worth and role

There is some evidence that the trend towards shaved vulvas came from the medicalisation of childbirth. Where once women would have given birth in private at home, from the 20s onwards it became common to go to hospital, where you would be shaved and have an enema. It was believed at the time and up until the 80s that shaving was necessary for hygiene during childbirth.

No one is suggesting anyone told you to shave Blueberry. But you didn't come up with the idea entirely on your own.

I almost find it more insulting that peoples on this thread are insinuating that the only reason I shave my legs, armpits and pubic area is because I've been brainwashed by porn. That is not the case! My partner has never even mentioned hair, it's my who tells him to trim up his public hair and shave his facial hair! And that's not because of porn, that's because I find kissing a beard itchy and I don't find giving oral sex very nice with a mouth full of pubic hair. I shave myself because I like the smoothness. If suddenly porn went back to having hairy women in "fashion" a) I wouldn't start leaving myself hairy because I don't like the feeling and b) I wouldn't know anyway because I don't watch porn!

Those of you who choose not to shave seem to think the world thinks you're some sort of freak for not shaving, when in reality I honestly think the majority of people couldn't give 2 hoots. You're always going to get the odd idiot with an opinion, but surely that's the case with literary everything in life - whether you're a man or a woman. I have never ever discussed shaving (or lack of) with any of my friends and I have never been told to shave.

There's no such thing as a "feminist choice." It is entirely possible to remove every body hair and still be a feminist. Feminism isn't about telling women what to do. It's about understanding the choices we make. In this case the OP feels the need not to shave but is meeting resistance, from her partner and from her own sense of what's acceptable. The feminist discussion centres around the causes of that resistance. The individual choice about whether to remove hair or not is not up for debate - that's entirely up to each woman. We want to examine exactly why women struggle with something that should be a simple decision.

I do find men with facial hair quite icky. Scratchy and bits of food put me off!
It is a school rule that the older boys have to be clean shaven.

I think that one of the reasons for more women shaving, is the improved quality of hair removal systems. I have very fine almost transparent leg hair so have never needed to shave for my legs to look hairless. I remember shaving with a bic razor as a teen, but hating the stubbly feel so didn't bother that much. These days, with my epliator, my legs feel fantastic hairless. I can't see the difference, but the feel is the reason I do it.
I scrub the rough skin off my feet because I like the feel of it, not because there is a society pressure to have soft feet. No one ever sees my feet (I never wear sandals or flip-flops).

Puffins, I thought that "of course" was directed at me in a snippy and dismissive way, therefore I ignored it in a dignified fashun as befits a laydee

I do entirely accept that the reason I have all my pubic hair waxed off is because of porn. If there wasn't the fashion for it created by porn, there'd be no waxing people who knew how to do it, apart from anything else. However, that said, I find it more comfortable under clothes and I enjoy sex more. On a political level, as I've said, I'm not comfortable with that. But unlike the OP, I'm choosing to put preference before principle on this one.

It's not a feminist choice, but as least I know that.

Shall we return to the OP?

Last post.... Sorry, stupid iPad randomly posts things I don't want it to.... Like of course further up

Real women come in all shapes and sizes, with or without body hair. All feminists ask is that women look at why they do certain practices that men don't do and look at the inequalities behind them. Shave, don't shave, but don't tell me that shaving happens in a cultural vacuum.

Plus of course, you remove your hair for cultural reasons. Porn culture is the reason, whether you've watched it or not.

No, I would tell a Muslim woman who removes all her body hair that it's because of one of the edicts of her faith. So not a free choice (I was reliably informed). Did you want to bolster my point?

As a woman who hasn't removed hair for a good number of years I am not dirty, smelly or devoid of sex.

When I began my avoidance of the razor I felt very unsure of my decision, I felt I should shave, that people would be disgusted and judgemental. But the more time that went on the less fucks I gave of what other people thought of my body.