Female body hair / husband- help?

Yeah I reckon so MrsBuffy, I have seen evidence of this viewpoint on the thread

Maybe it's even more of a feminist issue because even though I am very aware of feminism and consider myself to have feminist views I still think that shaving is my own choice when, after reading some of the responses, I can see that there must have been some outside influence that started me off with it in the first place. Yes, the reason I continue to shave is because I like the feeling, but perhaps that's not the reason I started all those years ago. (Yes, the penny has dropped before anyone says )

Oh fgs sorry spelling again my phone has a mind of its own. Should be "in fact" and "feel".

Shaska, your post seems aimed at me. Yes I have said I shave because I like the smoothness but nowhere have I said it's not a feminist issue. Intact quote the contrary, I have actually said whilst social pressure to shave doesn't feel an issue for me, I appreciate that it is for others, and that other women only remove hair because they fe social pressures to do so. Just wanted to clarify that, as a lot of my posts seem to have been misinterpreted.

I've not RTFT. Thanks to you lovely lot - and the onset of Autumn - I have been experimentally not shaving anything for about 2/3 weeks now. Prolific MN threads have really made me think about this. I have found:

• It is really nice not to have to shave stubble all the time. Shaving is a chore.

• My dh has not noticed, or has not said anything, and still finds me sexually attractive.

I doubt I'll keep it up - the next time I go swimming I will shave. Meh - that's the patriarchy for you. It's refreshing though.

This thread has triggered lots of ancient memories. Picking up on pp's who have discussed wider societal pressures versus individual freedom of choice.

I remember starting secondary school and the unpleasant combination of having to do PE in old style navy knickers, short hockey skirts and the arrival of bodily hair and periods. My peers where talking about leg hair removal and I went home and asked my mum if I could shave my legs. She gave me a razor and said she would not stop me, but warned ominously "that once you start, you will never stop". I didn't even know what she meant as a 12 year old, now I do. As a child I had watched my mum shave her legs, and therefore this process was normalised for me. This in tandem with peer pressure, not wanting to be different, saw the start of hair removal for me.

I did not make these decisions in a vacuum, none of us do. I am sure issues like, enjoying the smoothness, the look, increased sensitivity during sex are reasons that some women continue to do it but they will not be the reason that it started. How could it be? Before anyone removes body hair for the first time, they cannot know how it will feel.

Therefore the reason it starts has to be rooted in our conditioned behaviour which is culturally rooted.

I don't think whether any of us remove or don't remove our body hair has a bearing on being engaged with the issues of feminism. However wondering and discussing how society has got to this point and why these changes come about is of course of interest.

Most of the time I am happily hairy, but if I am swimming or wearing sleeveless tops etc i will get the epilady out. This is usually connected with going on holiday, so max 2 or 3 times a year. I am just back from a break that involved me epilating before I went. My 3 year old daughter was watching my hair removal. I then continued packing, turned round to see her running the unplugged epilady over her little hair free legs. She thought it was a game and wanted to be like her mum. I felt incredibly sad at that moment. I felt like I was setting a bad example (rightly or wrongly) I am under no illusions about my hair removal, i do it because of cultural norms and expectations of the society I live in. I would love to never feel pressured to remove another hair from my body.

My husband is very hairy and it was one of the physical attributes that originally attracted me to him. In our 2 decades together he has never commented on my hairy legs/pits/pubes. I would be shocked to the core if he did. I would find it very disrespectful. In fact he finds the whole hair removal process annoying as due to arthritis I need some help from him in certain areas, I think he wishes I would just jack it in, but as it is infrequent it is not much of a burden for either of us.

I know myself I will never expose my hairy areas to outside scrutiny as I would feel self conscious. I am annoyed I feel like this, but also accepting of it at the same time.

I don't shave, OP, and I've managed to make it work in my head, despite my well functioning be-femme conditioning. I've cultivated a sense that it's subversive and hyper-adult woman owning her animal body. I honestly assume the double takes at my pits in particular are people totally amazed by how awesome it looks when it's meant to look dreadful.

As a bonus, both my children love a comforting fiddle with a hairy bit of pit. I haven't really discussed it with DP because it just didn't occur to me. I just assumed he'd be into it because it's me, the way I love his style but mainly because it's HIS style.

I haven't always been hairy, I've had phases of shaving. But then I had kids, and I just thought I could in a small way help them feel their choices were easier to honour if they could see me casually ignoring beauty standards. I don't always feel casual about it; it's cultivated.

Terra - that link is brilliant.

This thread has a certain 'bingo' element to it, unsurprisingly.

I shave the minimum I can get away with, and am aware that when I do it is entirely to 'fit in', and because of the expectations of society.

And I hate that I do.

This smoothness business. I like the smoothness too. But this 'shaving purely because it's nice to be smooth and no, it is NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMINISM' just seems odd, in that OF COURSE there might be benefits or enjoyable things about a process that is fundamentally a bit dodgy. I mean, there are many things in the world that are dodgy and also pleasant. The one doesn't negate the other.

OF COURSE it is possible for a woman to remove hair because she enjoys it. It is entirely possible for that woman to be a feminist and it is entirely possible for that woman to even be totally immune to the whole hairlessness pressure thing and really truly shave solely because she likes the feeling of smooth skin.

But that DOESNT MEAN THE HAIRLESSNESS THING DOESN'T EXIST. It does. It ruddy does. We all know it and frankly it just seems utterly, utterly mad to pretend it doesn't. And I DO admire women who push back against that, because I doubt very much that a woman with exposed hairy pits isn't going to have at least one and likely more than one person comment negatively on it, with that negative comment not being based on a genderless idea of cleanliness or tidiness, but with the idea that FOR A WOMAN it's not ok to have hairy pits. And for me that's enough to make it worth questioning, and worth pushing against.

OP, I don't know what to tell your husband. Also: I shave. So I have no solution. But this debate about whether or not it's A Thing is just bats.

Oh my word!

The only person who has spoken to anyone on this thread in a violent, aggressive, snarly, derogatory manner is you, FB. You have done it from your first post.

We're not being nasty to you sweets, we're laughing at you. Shaking our heads with wry grins on our faces at your inability to see what you're doing, your utter lack of insight.

Sucks to be you.

As a man I think he should shave himself if he wants and respect what you want to do with your own body.

No idea why my phone posted "ass" yourself, as amusing as that sounds. It was supposed to say do you not consider yourself to have any feminist views.

"with your condescending attitude ladies. "

Oh bollocks, ANOTHER irony-meter bites the dust!

Fakebook I'm curious do you not ass yourself to have any feminist views at all?

You see FB we aren't a homogeneous mass. Are you really put off feminism (the movement by which you now have the vote and a whole host of other rights) all because you think a few feminists are being mean to you on the internet?

And no, women saying that your thought process might be wrong (because, science) is not "being woman's own worst enemy". If you knew anything about feminism you'd know how wrong you are.

Also please explain your use of quotes around feminism. Do you understand the word?

You've deffo risen above it all by calling everyone who disagreed with you "bitchy" fakebook

Says the poster whose first post called the OP's thoughts "utterly and completely daft". And obviously calling us all 'ladies' isn't meant to be at all derogatory .

Disagreeing with you is derogatory, condescending, angry and aggressive is it now? Seems someone has issues with being challenged.

You're really not doing any favours to "feminists" with your condescending attitude ladies. Stop being so angry and aggressive. Cliched as it sounds, women really are their own worst enemy aren't they? When you can't even hold a civilised discussion without the bitchy and patronising remarks when someone disagrees with you.

If you really want other people to agree or see things your way, perhaps learn how to talk to people in a non derogatory manner.

Liara, so men are required and conditioned to remove facial hair but women are totally free to do as they please? Conditioning only works on men?

Sorry, went off yesterday and didn't see your post, Callindana.

No, of course not. Everyone is conditioned by society's habit of jumping to conclusions about people based on minor aspects of their appearance/what they choose to do with their body.

I was just suggesting to the OP that she can discuss with her husband conditioning on a wider basis, in both men and women, with hair removal but an instantiation of it, to help get around the gut reaction he is getting.

Is all.

Yes, dear?

Do stop snarling, dear, and grow up. You can always come back when you have.

FuckOffFerret

I rarely say this but on the Toast, I would recommend reading the comments. They can be just as or even more witty than the articles esp on this subject.