Female body hair / husband- help?

Shirtless men anywhere but the beach are, for want of a better word, icky.

I think social norms are very difficult to rebuff, and in many respects I CBA to be uncomfortable to wear special feminist badges. Sometimes I think it makes a mockery of feminism and reduces it to a mob/club where everyone has to think the same.

I wouldn't be very happy if my partner decided to walk around in public with his shirt off, breaking wind and belching unashamedly, but it's only social conditioning that stops this behaviour.

Do you think it's not worth questioning rules that are specifically gendered, cause a lot of pain, hassle and waste of money to one sex specifically? The whole point of social conditioning is that you can alter it. Your daughter doesn't have to be ashamed to have hairy legs.

Your son doesn't have to want to puke because his girlfriend has pubes.

Also, burping, farting are considered anti social because they stink. They're not gendered. Your dh could walk around without a shirt and hardly anyone would bat an eye though.

Looking back through my posts, I've admittedly been a bit aggressive about this subject, so apologies. But I do genuinely find it a bit odd that so many people focus on the body hair aspect when almost everything we do is influenced by social conditioning.

I wouldn't be very happy if my partner decided to walk around in public with his shirt off, breaking wind and belching unashamedly, but it's only social conditioning that stops this behaviour.

Ignoring for a moment the whole "women shave because we're programmed to build nests out of our own hair because birds do it with feathers, and also more women shave now than 50 years ago because empowerment" thing, because that was just silly and I'm embarrassed for the person who said it, on the idea that men walk around in the middle of summer in heavy trousers, leather shoes, and ties...I honestly can't remember the last time DH wore a tie, I think it was for a job interview. The actual job did not expect him to wear a tie because other than a few industries (law, finance, maybe a couple of others) that's not expected in many workplaces nowadays.

All the men I saw today were in shorts and sandals, because it's hot as balls. One bloke was in full length trousers, DH commented that he'd probably had to go in to work. No tie though because seriously, there are jobs other than lawyer and banker and maybe professional salesperson that men are allowed to hold.

It's entirely your choice whether you shave but it's entirely your husband's choice whether he wants to stay with someone who he doesn't feel attracted to.

Its not really a feminists issue , although some feminists think its your husband perpetuating his control over you

Jo and I are feminists, I have never had any body hair (and was teased at school ) Jo has got quite a bit, I am cool if she shaves it or doesn't but we are lesbians ,and both versatile

remember burning your Bra , that was about men controlling women, , same with makeup , most feminists think women shouldn't wear makeup during the day at work , I don', t and have encouraged the girls at work not to wear makeup too ,

we have the most relaxed chambers in town ,

tell your husband he had better get used to it,

your husband is in the wrong , its clear control , start putting your foot down , its your body not his !

It's an interesting thread to be resurrected imho.

I've always thought i shaved (legs and under arms) for me, but I'm not that sure when I think about it .

That said I hate it when DH doesn't shave his face to the extent I won't kiss him with 2 day stubble (I have eczema and it irritates my skin like mad - it's not an aesthetic issue so much, though I do prefer him clean shaven if I'm honest, but rather I don't want a week of having a face looking like my cleansing routine includes a Brillo pad).

I could stop shaving and tbh I'm pretty sure my DH wouldn't care too much - that said I'm fair skinned/hair and not overly hirsute anyway.

I'm not convinced it's making a "stand" not to shave, but I do think it should be a choice about what/when/how much hair removal you choose to do and I don't think being considerate of your partner is an irrelevance.

I guess I just don't understand this tendency on here to pretend that it doesn't matter how your partner looks and whether you find them attractive. To most couples in the real world I really think it does matter tbh.

the pressure on women to wear very little clothing

Why is it that when I say "options" someone else reads it as "pressure"? If you don't want to address the issue, I can't force you. Go into any business in the High Street, and you're likely to meet women there dressed for summer--let's say light cotton dresses, bare legs, open-toed shoes, all acceptable in most places these days (but no, probably not in old-fashioned law firms, as PeakPants stated). Meanwhile the men will be in long trousers, solid leather shoes, and maybe ties, though ties aren't as universal as they used to be.

But there is "pressure" on women that men don't have, and of course that is to entertain the world with endless variety in clothing. I keep thinking about that male Australian news presenter who wore the same suit for a year, and nobody said a word. He did it because his female colleague faced constant criticism about her choice of clothes, but of course, if he'd chosen to wear something radically different from his boring blue suit, then imagine the criticism! So there seem to be different kinds of constraint and different kinds of freedom.

Now I'm post menopausal I lament the demise of my bush. Cultivate it while you can.=

zombie thread

I actually posted on this thread 4 years ago the first time around.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do.

I never saw the pressure on women to wear very little clothing as a privilege. Interesting way of looking at things

Outside of certain jobs where a suit is required is there ever a time where men aren't allowed to wear shorts? Dh seems to live in them even in the dead of winter. He certainly never worries about shaving first. He has a sort of yeti appeal. He also occasionally grows a beard because he fancies it and then shaves it off. Almost like no one gives a shit about any of his body hair.

I'm lazy about shaving but being fair and not that hairy legged it's never been a problem. I rarely shave my legs but you can't really tell. I don't do bikini line topiary because it gives me folliculitis. As a GP I see a lot of women with bikini line folliculitis and sometimes feel like a one woman anti shaving propagandist. I usually do my pits but have phases when I rebel and got strange looks from the women at my antenatal aqua aerobics classes as that was one of my anti pit shaving phases.
Now I'm post menopausal I lament the demise of my bush. Cultivate it while you can.
My husband has got in to shaving for his cycling again and is less hairy than me.
I prefer him with hairy legs and he probably prefers me less hairy but we both agree how hairy you are is an individual choice and shouldn't be that important to the other person.
Moustaches are different. If he grows facial hair I know he's wanting out of the marriage. (I keep my facial hair down too, ageing is a bitch)!

Also, at parties women might be able to wear less than men, but in law firms I have worked, there was a no bare shoulders rule and bare legs were also frowned on, so it didn't feel much of a privilege having to wear opaque tights in summer. In court etc, both sexes would be expected to wear a suit-jacket. In old-school city practices, women are often told to wear skirts with heels rather than trousers with flats, so yes, body hair would be visible, even if you wore tights, but the clothing is no less restrictive. I knew a fair few women who waxed their arms as well whereas nobody would bat an eyelid at a man with his sleeves rolled up and hairy arms on display. Doesn't feel very privileged to me.

Does your local supermarket really let people in without shirts on?

Yeah.... It's not like there's a guard at the door or anything. The topless men are all over town too.

Does your local supermarket really let people in without shirts on? Maybe it's allowed everywhere, and I live in a posh neighbourhood where it just isn't done.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do.

Sorry, just picked myself off the floor laughing. I have just been to the supermarket and in there and on the way there I witnessed numerous fine specimens of the male variety clad in nothing but a pair of shorts, perusing the fresh food aisle with their moobs on display.
But yeah, such a privilege.

It never seems to be mentioned in the body-hair threads that this is only a public issue because women have the privilege of wearing fewer clothes than men do. If women dressed like men for every occasion except the most casual oneslegs hidden, tops with sleevesthen you'd never know who'd kept their fur and who hadn't. Maybe you can call it a devil's bargain, where it's "Shave your body hair, or stay covered up."

But then, when things are very casual, the men have the advantage. You wouldn't be surprised to see some bloke in the supermarket wearing shorts, and his manly hairy legs on full view. If it were a woman, you'd be more likely to notice (favourably or not).

In a marital situation, it's a man's duty to be accepting. For richer, for poorer, etc. With my body I thee worship.

For example, it's perfectly natural for a middle aged men to find nubile 18yo girls attractive

Well.... I am not so sure about that. You can say that pedophilia is 'natural' too then in that some people are attracted to prepubescent children. Attraction is not entirely natural- it has its roots in social conditioning and cultural norms too. Pedophilia is rightly reviled in most societies and the only ones acting on it are labelled as deviant.
The same could be true for middle-age attraction to very young women. Except that's not reviled at all, is it? It's normalised and encouraged. Hannah Gadsby raised this in her show Nanette. Women are infantalised, reduced to their looks and told that their prime of life is at the age of 19 or so. Men on the other hand are in their prime in mid-life. Page-3 girls are rarely above 23, male 40 and 50 something Hollywood celebs (and Paul Hollywood) proudly step out with women 25 years their junior that they clearly have little to nothing in common with and then split and move on to a younger model. This is seen as evidence of 'nature', proof that men are fertile all their lives, that they are subconsciously drawn to young women. That's largely bollocks and has been conveniently used as an excuse to justify men getting away with all that shit for centuries. It's become totally acceptable and normal behaviour and if it was truly disapproved of, nobody would be saying it was 'natural'.

My partner trims his armpit and genital hair and uses Veet on his hairy back.

I thought feminism was about having your own choices and doing things you want to do as a woman?

It's really not. Unless you subscribe to the school of thought that believes feminism solely consists of choosing to be a stripper as a form of female empowerment.

I know I've joined in and compared too - but comparing facial hair removal (which women are also expected to do) to body hair removal (which men aren't expected to do) isn't really like for like anyway is it.

And yes, I just don't understand how a man, with hair legs, chest, armpits etc. can stand there and pull a disgusted face at a woman with hairy legs - how can he keep a straight face at the immense double standard, at the hypocrisy?

Most mammals have beauty standards in some way and they generally seem to adhere to them. Ours are undoubtedly shaped by societal pressure but it feels just as unnatural to deliberately fight them for ideological reasons as it does to go along with what one finds attractive like most mammals do. Personally, I find hairy legs gross.

I can't even tell if my female colleagues have shaved armpits. I can definitely tell when my partner hasn't trimmed his beard for a week and have told him on occasions he looks scruffy.

"a well maintained beard takes more effort than just shaving"

The issue isn't just the effort, the time, the cost and the discomfort of removing hair. It's also the stigma; the mentality that body hair on women is freakish, unnatural or dirty. If a man doesn't shave his face for a week but showers as normal, he wouldn't get a second glance on the bus. If a woman hasn't shaved under her arms for a week, it's noticed and commented on.