Amal Alamuddin has changed her name professionally

Equality isn't some sort of nirvanaesque goal that should take precedence over all other human considerations...

So if I made an active decision to change my name, knowing that I didn't have to, knowing that DH didn't mind either way, am I forgiven by the sisterhood?

And re the legs, I'm woman D. I wax my legs because I like to, while taking into account the societal norms and expectations that contribute to me thinking that way.

But I also look at men and ask "is this actually unfair or unequal? Do men remove/fiddle about with body hair for reasons of vanity? Is it OK for men to fuss over their appearance, choose a particular look and particular clothes?" The answer is yes, so my conclusion is I am OK with me doing it too, up to a point that I consider roughly equal.

It's not changing your name, or not, that necessarily directly involves having a lightbulb moment. It's understanding why you are doing it or why you are choosing not to. You could, like Annie, do it with awareness of what you're buying into but decide your personal reasons at that time are more important, for example.

If you really think it's a totally free choice and doesn't say anything about you or society or affect anything or anyone else - then yes, there's something you haven't yet been able to see clearly IMO.

That is just my view and one I'd like to be able to discuss without it being taken as nastiness or being inflammatory.

I agree with Buffy about the "journey". I'm far from thinking I've got to the end of it - scales still fall from my eyes quite regularly, I still take new steps in realising where I've internalised inequality. Like realising that the way I take on more responsibility for the wifework in my home is not just "easier" or "because I'm better at it" - it's a political and counterproductive act. Like realising, through discussions on here, that yes, that bloke when I was 17 was actually trying to rape me, and it wasn't OK just because I'd got into bed with him. And so on and so on.

I have rarely ventured into this part of mumsnet as it can seem a bit intimidating, but I am loving the comments on this thread and nodding my head furiously with many of them. Wish I knew more people like you in RL.

So those of us who changed our names haven't seen the light yet?

Could you be any more patronising?

Nope, sorry I totally disagree. My view is that there are more eloquent ways to make the same point without making the other person feel judged and defensive about their choices. Women get that enough already. I say this as someone who has caused someone in rl to re-think whether or not they wanted to change their name. I think it's easily done, minus the judgmental element.

Having said that.....of course, we all judge. I have done a lot of silent and not so silent judging on this thread.

I suppose if you think that a woman is behaving in a prescribed sexist way and she doesn't think she is, she's going to feel judged and annoyed.

There is "judging" going on if having a negative opinion about something someone does is "judging". But in that case, we all judge, in various ways and about various things.

It's only inflammatory if you take it personally. As many have pointed out, you can have an opinion about the phenomenon and the reasons why it happens, without it being a personal attack.

I have read and re-read Voyagers post and still conclude summarise a woman's feminist credentials in a name. And while the intention isn't to judge, the language is inflammatory and judgmental.

Yes there are some men who are happy to change their name, just as there are some women who aren't, and I think that's an example of how things are starting to change. But until it's 50:50 (or just isn't something that people feel the need to do at all for reasons of marriage - changing your name is a hassle after all), I can't see it as a good thing when women do it.

Voyager Sorry that you endured similar difficulties in your youth.

There is only so much change you can take at such a tumultuous time isn't there?

Taking on a husbands name when there is love and you have chosen him with free will means that women really balk at feeling like they are conforming to something that is bound up in their cultural DNA. Whereas rejecting a fathers name- well that is more socially understandable because many of us have very difficult relationships with our parents.

Annie I can really identify with your situation and I wish I had changed my name at 18, for the same reason. I wouldn't change my name to a man's on marriage, for reasons stated, but for me changing my name from my dad's would have been a good thing if I had done it early. Now, because of my career, it would be a really bad idea to change it and it's too late really.

But at 18 it's very hard because you are still emerging from what has been done to you. I was also working hard on a degree and living independently and it just wasn't something I could deal with at the time.

BTW Voyager

My husband was willing to change his name to either my old one (he suggested we could reclaim it as 'ours) or a new one belonging to us. He couldn't have cared less about keeping his family name. I made the decision to change to his and I feel that actually it was a proactive decision, not a default one. I love his family and want to be part of their 'tribe' and to be identified as that too.

However I realise that that message may well be lost on society as a whole because I just present as yet another woman who mindlessly took on her partners name.

Another great post Voyager.

:) Chunderella

Yes it is a tricky one but I have ensured our children know they have choice in this and they know the law.

I don't make a distinction between professional/SAHM at all in fact, because I think women changing their name to their husband's on marriage, whoever they are, does impact all other women, and all men, and all children, who hear about it or come into contact with her. It does that by reinforcing the message that women are less valuable than men and are expected to behave in self-obliterating ways that men aren't. Anything, anywhere, that sends out that message is damaging to equality and to women, because it helps that message sink into everyone's subconscious. That's why IMO a feminist shouldn't do it.

You can take massive offence at that if you wish and claim that you are a strong woman, feminist, wear the trousers in your marriage, made a free choice whatever whatever. But the bald facts are that if you let your name be erased while his takes over, the message that sends is "wee wifey's name is dispensable, she matters less; his name is their name, the family name, and he matters more." It's not a personal attack, and as I said I don't tell friends what to do, I respect that they have a choice. But I am allowed to observe that when women do that, they perpetuate and disseminate an acceptance of inequality.

The proof of that is that if you asked men to do it, 99% of them would say no. Why is that? There's absolutely no physical or practical reason why men shouldn't change their names just as much. They'd say no because they are deeply socialised to value their name, identity and self, while in many cases thinking that for a woman, that's less important.

You don't have to consciously think this for it to be the case. The fact that you've deeply internalised that as a woman you're less important than a man, and that the man you marry has internalised that too, is there anyway. I don't exclude myself from that either. I think anyone growing up in this society internalises it to a greater or lesser degree. But feminists aim to resist it.

It's also true that in many professions, mine included, you will benefit from keeping the same name through your career, and lose out by changing it. All the more reason not to do it, but not for me the central reason.

I'm disappointed in Amal doing it because she is visible and well-known, so she's sending that message out in spades. I feel the same when a pop-star or reality star does it, it's not just about her being professionally brilliant, but also about the power of the example she sets.