How to be a feminist father ...

I must say that I think the task for me personally will be harder than I thought.

Ah MarriedDad, when men (and boys) start seeing things through a female frame of reference, it opens their eyes enormously. Good for you for being open-minded enough, and caring enough about your daughter's (and son's, as this will have a positive impact on him) future to have your eyes opened and seek information.

Think ahead to when your DD is 16.

It's summer and she's going on a night out with her friends. She comes down the stairs wearing and very short skirt, a boob tube and high heels.

What's your reaction? Do you say anything to her before she goes out?

Sorry

Whooo wait up. I misunderstood your post. I read it that you were the ops wife?!?!

Total facepalm moment!

I am not married to the op.

I agree with you about his use of language.

I disagree about mine.

I've no idea if he's a patriarchal beast. But he asked what more can be done I expressed an opinion about the language of the op.

And I totally agree with keepithidden. Patriarchal language is insidious. You can be the most forward looking feminist male or female but if you're language is still retrogressive you're just creating a disconnect between what you are saying and what your language is saying

Well, this is frustrating. I've honestly never met a more feminist thinking male than my dh. But because of the interpretation of my language, he's seen as a patriarchal beast.

If I really think about why I used the word 'his' rather than 'our', it's perhaps because I see him as an equal parent and so don't have to tag me onto his connection to the kids.

Language is the most difficult aspect I find with the whole Feminism movement. Its so inbuilt and automatic that I struggle not to fall into patriarchal norms regularly. Yet it is so important as it is an unconscious method of asserting a level of control the shouldn't be there.

Treating DD and DS the same is pretty easy in comparison to moderating, and actually thinking about what I say, or rather how I say it. I do worry about that aspect of parenting a lot. You have my sympathy OP, it's not easy to change, but change we must.

PS - for those who don't know I'm man too.

I really wasn't aware of the amount of possessional language until I got divorced from my very patriarchal ex husband. I was "his" a lot. I noticed even in court there was a lot "his children" and "my children". I tended to refer to the children by name or "his children" when ir should have been my or own. it impacted on dd very much. I'm now very carefully when I use these

I also wonder about the level of casual control and fearfulness of the world outside your family.

Most of the world are not idiots and I'm not sure setting a daughter up with the expectation that they are is within the ideal of a feminist father.

Seriously muting the adverts? I want my dd to engage with all aspects of the world and trust that with my guidance she can work out the right path for her.

If you wouldn't say it to your son, don't say it to your daughter. So no extra rules about how she should behave, dress, conduct her relationships. Expect her to live up to her intellectual potential - don't expect less of her than you would of your son.

I don't know coffee I do refer to my children on MN just as a lot if other posters.
The OP might it might be aware of the MN style of talking about dd instead of my daughter.
It might it it might signal an issue.

But if it does sign towards a very patriarchal position, then this is the best your to show the OP what he could be doing better!!

And tbh, even if it's not for the OP, there are lots of other people that will benefit from it anyway (me included tbh. I sometimes find they no better anyway)

"His" "my" and "our" all are used to indicate possession and ownership. A small amount of that in everyday use is inevitable.

But within the context of your sentence you used "his" as opposed to "our" thereby highlighting your husbands claim (for want of a better phrase) to your children and minimising your own.

The language in both the op (theres an awful lot of possessional language) and you're own post seem so casually patriarchally I wonder if you're both just totally used to talking that way.

Op, another one - just because it's possible to find a very few examples of what seems to be reverse sexism (such as the much cited Diet Coke ad), if you note it's the same few counterexamples cited over and over, that'll give you an idea of the scale of the problem.

Another one that sometimes comes up - Hermione being smart and Ron less so - but one of the twenty odd features on the DVD is "The Women Of Harry Potter"...

Absolutely excepting them! because they are telling you something about themselves and their likes- Not there position.

Coffee - I can see my turn of phrase has angered you ('his children'). I'd like to understand why.

The ownership thing? Surely my next two sentences - "Our dd doesn't automatically defer to his authority. Good, we are raising human beings, not automatons." indicates that we don't see our children as possessions.

It's very hard to convey who I am through short posts.

Always excepting the various mrscumberbatch type names

Though sometimes people posting for a specific problem name themselves after the problem like "foundmyfriendout"

Anyway, let's see how things develop!

Actually "his children" is the really killer for me. Bleuch!

And defining yourself by your relationship to your child on a parenting forum is a little different than your position within the family. So mummytocharlieandlola vs marriedtomr.... not so many of them

My advice would be to go easy on the 'you look beautiful's, and make sure you balance them with compliments about her bravery, intelligence, achievements etc. Whilst it's a trap both parents fall into very easily (myself included!), I think it's particularly important for a daughter to be complimented by a man for things other than her appearance, so she avoids falling into the trap of thinking that all men only value looks.

Yeah none of the phrases on their own are that bigger deal but there are just so many of them in both the op and yamas thread

Coffee, I agree with some of the points about phrasing but lots of women on here have "mummytocharlieandlola" type names.

"knows how to parent his children"

his children/our children

Just too many examples

Like coffee, I really hope your son is older, ad that is why you did your username that way... Don't treat your daughter differently from your son.

Don't ever call her "princess".