How to be a feminist father ...

I think what I'm learning here is that the job of engaging other men is mine. I like the suggestions here that men should make it their responsibility not just in their family, but amongst their peer group and more broadly.

yes, tactically, that's pretty much how I see the exchange, Married - the sort of seemingly 'low hanging fruit' re womens rights aren't all that they seem, ime. The effort to engage there is def. worthwhile, though your presentation or language may not be everyone's cup of tea. It is the 'chipping away' that's quite important, imho.

I earn 10x what the children's father does so all the children know mummy's career prevails and we always split tasks fairly at home. Even 30 years ago when our oldest was born their father found and hired and interviewed the nanny with me.
We bought my daughters some feminist books about 25 years ago - just bed time stories showing women as doctors, window cleaners etc. The main thing is just let girls be active - my daughters have always been strong and also feminist, outside the horses, rushing across fields, dirty, not put into stupid silly clothes they cannot move in.
No one in the family lets anything sexist pass them by without comment.

ie promotional with a financial interest rather than topic interest.

I am sure it did come across as more promotional although this was not the intention. Will prefix anything that looks interesting with a "I'm going to this......" to dodge that fate in future. Thanks.

MNHQ are pretty clear that it's not a moderated site and that they respond to reports.

I think if you post "I'm going to this, anyone else interested?" then they are happy that it's more a discussion point than a promotion. And obviously if people are involved in the organisation of an event (not sure if you were on this one, just a general point) then it's harder to disclaim an interest in promoting it!

Yes thanks Yonic - this is what MNHQ said, but then I saw two other events listed in a similar way. I asked why there was no consistency and it seems there is no HQ monitoring, deletion only occurring if it is reported by someone on the board. I hope some people saw it before it was deleted!

Gina, I think it was deleted cos it was a post just promoting a specific, paid ticket event? I didn't report it, btw, it seemed a bit unnecessary to delete from my perspective, but I suppose it was a breach of TG.

Oh I was there too. Would have been nice to say Hello. I agree the speakers were eloquent and influential. I wished it could have gone on longer as the conversation about how to put the feminist point across with the maximum effect and minimal alienation was just getting going.

(BTW when I mentioned this discussion / debate through a new thread someone reported the post and it was deleted)

"I think what I'm learning here is that the job of engaging other men is mine".

That's a very valuable insight. Do include your son in this. He could be part of the next generation of feminist men. If he ever displays or shows interest in what is regarded as a (more) female thing (e.g. art, emotions, soppy films, looking after something/someone) encourage him or talk to him about it like you would with your daughter. And make sure he does as much tidying, cooking, serving drinks etc as your daughter.

I think with a lot of determination you may be able to beat this patriarchic mindset that rears its ugly head in most of us! Well, at least some of the time. Good luck and keep trying.

Thanks for sharing the blog Buffy I've never thought those words, or understood the world like that but some how while I was reading it I realized I'd been thinking them and feeling them the whole time.

Op, use my partner if you like. No one writes out DP!

Anyway, have got some docs to review so am off now. Enjoy the reading, hope it helps.

"Aren't the men that don't care the biggest problem?". Yeah! And they are the least likely to engage no matter how much we flower it up, so why should we waste all that time and energy when there are things we can focus on that we can change. But you know best of course.

Anyway I'm done with engaging. Wasted too much of my time and energy on you. That last post of yours has a whiff of women blaming/partner blaming so I'm out of here. Go off, read, listen and stop telling us how we should be doing feminism as if we had never thought of the arguments you are putting across.

DP works and is shorter!

For example, the language around "falling woefully short" is a very strong criticism and prefacing it with "dare I say" simply draws attention to the fact that you know it's a strong criticism and you are going to say it anyway because you care more about making your point than about how the other side receives it.

I don't want to make this a pile drive on your posts but I hope it's helpful feedback.

Ok, I believe you.

One thing I would advise on this forum is to look at your tone. A group of women tend to engage with each other in very different ways than a group of men. We will typically use "I wonder if" and "it seems to me" type language a fair amount. Men do so far less.

(NAMALT, NAWALT)

So a useful thing to be aware of in life is that both your wife and DD may speak like this, it doesn't mean that they are not that sure of their position and need a man to come and state some facts, it's socialised communication methods for both sides.