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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women wearing burqas segregated in aus parliiament building

110 replies

diggerdigsdogs · 02/10/2014 13:23

All people wearing a face covering, I.e. women wearing burqas, into australian parliament will be segregated and seated in an elevated, glassed enclosure/area. Apparently it's a similar area to where schools often sit.

This is because wearers cannot be visually identified even though they will still be security searched and checked. The original idea was that burqas would be banned outright from parliament.

Racial tensions are very high in Australia at the moment as back ground. A young man was shot by police after he stabbed two officers. Dawn raids by police on terror suspects. Graffiti, threats, racial abuse - on both sides from what I understand in the papers.

I'm totally on the fence on this one. On the one side I think people should have to show their faces in certain situations, especially where security is a concern, on the other I don't like the idea of excluding women from any sphere, especially a political one. I support women to dress as they please but I worry that he burqa is a tool of oppression for some(many?) women who must wear it regardless of their choice. Finally I think that for all of Australia's sexism and general conservative values it is a very multi cultural nation and I do not think this decision recognises the make up of modern Australia. From where I live in south Sydney it really does feel like a nation of immigrants.

I'd love to hear some more feminist thoughts on all of this :)

guardian aus article here

OP posts:
diggerdigsdogs · 02/10/2014 22:03

Of course Australia is a nation of immigrants! Even Indigenous Australians are theorised to have arrived by boat at some point in the distant past. By "it really does feel like a nation of immigrants" I meant that Australia feels multi cultural (food, shops, restaurants, foreign delis, distinctly ethnic areas, foreign language adverts in shops etc) in a way that I don't remember the UK being. The way white men on television and in newspapers and in parliament discuss Australia is in such terms that you would think it isn't very multi cultural and that all other immigrant cultures are potentially dangerous to Australia. Perhaps this is just my take on it though :)

Nice to see so many other people also on the fence about this! Grin

Absolutely abbot is a twat. I've never come across a politician I have disliked more.

OP posts:
BoredPanda · 02/10/2014 16:55

I personally dislike the burqa, my SIL's cousin wears the burqa and I really hate the idea as a feminist, but sectioning them off from society is still not a good idea. If they've had full checks and have some form of identification card, then it think it's wrong. Also, why is it ironic to say her area is filled with immigrants? So is mine. OP isn't saying this is a bad thing at all. This idea of Australians who aren't aboriginal being immigrants might be your opinion as someone British, so not from a colonised or only recently (for countries, I means) westernised country- but my little sister, for example, was born and raised n the UK, she's not an immigrant (I am), why are you an immigrant if you aren't aboriginal?

From my limited experience of Australia, I've found it a more racist and misogynist society than I expected it to be. I only lived in Melbourne for a year, but it's been the place where I've experienced the most anti semitism.

LittleBairn · 02/10/2014 16:40

This doesn't suprise me, there was demonstrations recently against a Mosque being built. It seems like the racists won.

Lottapianos · 02/10/2014 16:40

'I find religion to be a legalised and respected cult. Using all the same techniques. Mainly fear.
I view the word 'choice' as an excuse to defend religion. The same way punters and pimps use 'choice' to excuse prostitution'

I agree with all of this.

Burqas make me profoundly uncomfortable as a feminist. I know how I would feel if anyone tried to tell me what to wear/not to wear so I hate the thought of dictating to other women. I still have difficulty believing that wearing a burqa is a totally independent choice, freely made.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:39

Sorry you have had to NC. I understand your posts now.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:37

It means that prostitution is a hot and common topic on here. I was questioning your statement about 'all that matters is the people involved'.
Not me though I haven't ever NC

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:36

And again.

You win.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:35

I don't know puffin. You have a personal posting history.
I'm sure you remember posters you have seen on other threads. It's not stalking. How do you identify anyone you have communicated with before? I doubt they would bother with name changes on here if it wasn't a thing.
Stalking is something very different and targeting an individual

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:33

I am not being disingenuous ffs.

I disagree with you, you tell me you'll 'remember that next time I post about prostitution'? What the fuck is that supposed to mean then? Was it you? Were you the reason I had to name change?

SanityClause · 02/10/2014 16:31

Abbott, for example, is a twat.

^^^^

THIS!!!!!!

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:31

Seriously? I'm not threatening you?
Don't be disingenuous

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:29

Why do you think I was forced to name change King?

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:28

MN stalkers? What are you talking about?

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:28

But wow.... actually. You're going to remember that next time I post about something unrelated? Really? Do you normally threaten to stalk women who disagree with you? We've already lost 2 women from this board because of behaviour such as you've just suggested.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:25

As I said, get over yourself.

And, I'm a little tired of MN stalkers now. Interesting quote from you there.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:22

The security check is not the only security protocol.
I am thinking from a broader angle yourself. The women in question, are so pressurised and socialised I wouldn't expect anything else.
So it's only down to the women involved. I'll remember that when you post on a thread about prostitution.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:17

And do get over yourself.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:17

Pretty much Empire, as is my wont Grin

King, you suggest that women within Islam don't have choice or the agency to exercise choice. This is completely incorrect. You first suggested that women wearing the burqa had in some way circumvented the security measures, then when you were shown to be incorrect in that assumption went on to erect another strawman. What you find religion to be is immaterial. What the women in question have found it to be is the only consideration.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:12

*Accept sorry teacher

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:10

What is your problem? I'm sorry if you are the 'teacher'. I'll except a poor grade.
I find religion to be a legalised and respected cult. Using all the same techniques. Mainly fear.
I view the word 'choice' as an excuse to defend religion. The same way punters and pimps use 'choice' to excuse prostitution.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 02/10/2014 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 16:04

Yes, I do, obviously.

You might like to actually go and research that.

Poor effort.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 16:03

I think you will need show your face in parliament. To be identified at all time.
I think you have a different definition of 'choice'.
Muslim conversions is a very small %. I think if there is any element of fear related to a choice it makes it difficult.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 02/10/2014 15:56

The point is that they are NOT breaching security restrictions. They go through the same checks as everyone else, they remove their veils at security in order to be allowed in.... like I stated before, did you not read that? I also stated that there are some Muslim women who actively choose to wear the full veil.

And you also might like to do some reading into Muslim conversions. If you're going to insist on commenting about it.

King1982 · 02/10/2014 15:53

I don't know how many choose to be Muslim. I doubt many, some marry in to it. Probably less than reject Islam in later life. I don't see the choice really