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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Minor male entitlements

464 replies

kentishgirl · 18/09/2014 09:41

It's not just the big things, it's the little things that are in some way more irritating to me.

Just got out of the dentist. It's a small practise and I guess the receptionist is off sick as the reception desk still had shutters down, so they were a little bit late opening up. One woman was sitting in waiting room when I arrived. A man came in a little after me.

The dentist came out and opened up the desk.

Guess who quickly jumped up and got there to be dealt with first?

OP posts:
BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 22:03

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ballsballsballs · 21/09/2014 22:03

cromwell I love telling jokes and quite enjoy the fact that some men find it annoying. Grin

cromwell44 · 21/09/2014 21:49

Male entitlement to make jokes to unknown woman but complete shock if a witty retort is given back. This happened to me today and I realise it happens fairly regularly.
Example: I just finished at cashpoint, perfectly pleasant males arrives and cracks a funny I crack one back, he looks confused.
I get the impression only the man can do the jokes, my role is to be amused.
Anyone else experience this?

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 21:41

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ElephantsNeverForgive · 21/09/2014 21:36

Yes, I'm afraid it might. I guess he's too old for a bit of oriental foot binding to have any effect.

I only take 4's and he would argue I own more shoes than he does. And a fair percentage of them would fit in the space occupied by his wellies!

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 21:32
BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 21:27

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GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 21:17

Yh, I get you, Buffy!

Actually, if you don't do body language then you probably aren't signalling submission :)

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 21:09

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GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 21:03

Chopping his feet in half might be a slight over-reaction Grin

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 21:02

I'd like assertiveness to be taught properly in schools, to both sexes. It's the natural corollary to rights & responsibilities - which are taught, but with inadequate attention to social execution of those things.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 21/09/2014 21:00

Taking up space, he has a study, but gather than tidy it, we get computers and box files and stuff dumped in the kitchen and the living room and woe betide me if it gets moved because it's in the way.

He never declutters and I've heaps of magazines I'd like to lock him in our bedroom until he sorts.

He also has size 11 feet, his shoes take up way too much floor, hall and shoe rack, but I suppose that's not his fault.

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 20:48

Buffy - Well, the real issue is that we shouldn't have to be competing with men to be more macho! A lot of these space-invading and master/servant type annoyances do, I think, come from habitual macho posturing and aren't conscious. If they are done consciously, we've got ourselves an arsehole and a battle. But many of the things mentioned seem to be consequences of habitual machismo meeting habitual femininity. If we can't wipe out the masculine side of the equation, we can attempt to reduce the conflict by abandoning the feminine performance - we can't change other people, but we can change our interactions with them, etc, etc.

What women consider rude often isn't. Interrupting, for example. Saying "No" for another. If you have raised your volume, it's clear you intend to be heard and you shouldn't have to be louder in decibel terms than everyone else. In a one-to-one conversation or small group, lowering your voice can work better. Women are often scared of giving orders, making direct requests, even of offering opinions without apologising first. And are too quick to retreat. So you lose a few; you just keep going if necessary, or cede without shame.

A small person can square up to a larger 'looming' one. It doesn't look as weird as it sounds! The main point is not to shrink or step back - it's a tiny bit of power play via body language: it is important, but it's not a fight. I've noticed that many women never stand full-square to men. They're always angling their bodies, tilting their hips and face, leaning on one foot, looking through their eyelashes, smiling ... centuries of our history have required that we constantly signal submission to the male. Tbh, all this can be overcome in a single assertiveness class, if it's good enough, or a short NLP course if you feel like going into it from a deeper level.

Anything else I write now will be assumptive, so I'll wait & see if people want to continue in this vein or not.

rosabud · 21/09/2014 20:47

Cross-posted. Bellecurve YY!

rosabud · 21/09/2014 20:44

Oh I'm so glad this thread went back on course (for a bit, anyway!). I liked Luis's post - and all of Buffy's attempts to reason and explain (hats off, as usual!)

The minor male entitlements I would like to list are:

  1. Classroom behaviour - actually this isn't minor, thanks to disruption and teachers being (understandably) desperate to get all their targets, teaching styles and contents of lessons are being shamelessly designed to cater for loud, dsruptive boys -and a generation of girls are having to adjust themselves and their learning patterns accordingly.
  1. Shouting in public - from the obviousness of "laddish behaviour" right down to being able to yell to attract an acquaintance's attention on a busy high street. Technically speaking a woamn can yell, "Oi, Mary!!!" across a crowded shopping mall but they don't, it just isn't acceptable.
  1. Christmas.
ballsballsballs · 21/09/2014 16:54

YY Bellecurve. See also 'babysitting' their own kids.

BelleCurve · 21/09/2014 16:29

Male entitlement to assume that their child's wellbeing, emotional and physical needs - clothing, housing, food and education will continue to be met without their input if their relationship with the child's mother breaks down.

ballsballsballs · 21/09/2014 15:26

'Cheer up love'. Because if I'm not smiling at all times I'm not fulfilling my role as decorative human being.

Expecting cookies for doing things that women (NAWALT :) ) do without thanks every day, such as childcare, cooking, washing up and 'multitasking'. DH generally does more domestic chores than I do, but yesterday told me he'd loaded the dishwasher for me... Hmm

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 14:29

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GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 14:15

Shit, sorry for x2 post.

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 14:14

Yes, that is an interesting (apparent) condundrum and is a basic illustration of why we need feminism.

Buffy - some of things I do might not work if you aren't tall or loud, but in general I think they work for anyone, regardless. Quietness is probably a bigger drawback than small stature. It's often necessary to project the voice. The other important thing is getting used to the fact that some misogynists (of both sexes) will dislike you for not performing femininity. Personally, I feel this as no loss.

I also feel that any individual who's likely to assault me for standing up to them is already dangerous - my behaviour doesn't make them so. I'll perform reasonable femininity if I think it'll stop someone attacking me: that's a crisis judgement to be made in the moment. It is certainly no protection against potential assault.

Obviously the complete answer to the thread's problem is teaching our young people to properly respect one another as fully individual humans. We live in a culture that doesn't yet do this, however, and my belief is that each of us can change that culture by choosing not to act out certain roles expected by it.

I bloody hope that makes sense! I'm typing in between doing something else.

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 14:14

Yes, that is an interesting (apparent) condundrum and is a basic illustration of why we need feminism.

Buffy - some of things I do might not work if you aren't tall or loud, but in general I think they work for anyone, regardless. Quietness is probably a bigger drawback than small stature. It's often necessary to project the voice. The other important thing is getting used to the fact that some misogynists (of both sexes) will dislike you for not performing femininity. Personally, I feel this as no loss.

I also feel that any individual who's likely to assault me for standing up to them is already dangerous - my behaviour doesn't make them so. I'll perform reasonable femininity if I think it'll stop someone attacking me: that's a crisis judgement to be made in the moment. It is certainly no protection against potential assault.

Obviously the complete answer to the thread's problem is teaching our young people to properly respect one another as fully individual humans. We live in a culture that doesn't yet do this, however, and my belief is that each of us can change that culture by choosing not to act out certain roles expected by it.

I bloody hope that makes sense! I'm typing in between doing something else.

PenguinsIsSleepDeprived · 21/09/2014 14:13

Yes. There is a difference between "I haven't had that" and "that doesn't happen".PARD and all that.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 21/09/2014 14:08

Absolutely ABland, but none of the women who said that they hadn't experienced something then assumed that the person who did was lying or needed to get a grip or whatever. Unless I missed a page of the thread.

I agree Buffy, but what would we hope to gain out of lying about such trivia? I am bamboozled.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/09/2014 14:01

It's not that we all agree - a few posters said "oh, I don't experience that on trains" or whatever.

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