Just got out of the swimming pool....

It is all a dominance display, same as catcalling. It's all about marking the territory as theirs and not ours.

At my old gym I used to go very early and it was great as it was completely empty, but once I went a little later for some reason and there was a group of blokes in there - in their forties! - just sort of, oh, "joking around". They made me really uncomfortable in that nameless, familiar way. I could swear one of them was pretending to wank himself behind me as I was swimming - he spread himself out over the stack of pool mats at the side. It was all... deniable but also completely unmissable? I got out and as I went through the double doors a great peal of laughter went up from them: victory!

Of course I never went again at that time. And tbh let my membership lapse shortly after. Sigh. Sigh!

Sorry that happened to you, esp with your DD there.

I'm sorry to say, but I think reporting to the police would be a bit of a waste of time.

I think the idea of writing to the pool management is a good idea though.

I have a wonderful friend who I know would have called them out, and said something like 'lads, put your fucking cocks away and shut the fuck up'. She is very much the exception to the rule though. I would have done the same as you, seethed, but not said anything.

Do you have a local newspaper OP ? If you do you could write about this and ask them not to print your name. You may find that other women have found their behaviour intimidating too.

I would report it too. Because indecent exposure and sexually aggressive behaviour is illegal.

I would report it to the police.

This is behaviour likely cause offence, alarm, or distress even.

you change in your changing cubicle and you don't set foot outside it without at least your cossie on even if the building is on fire!
Once, the alarm went off literally as I was stepping out of my wet cossie. I got dressed before leaving the cubicle (not least because hypothermia would have been a bigger risk, had I evacuated without dressing.) Not that this is relevant.

At my local pool, if you're not in a cubicle, you'd be seen from the pool, so I don't think anyone over about age 3 would run round without clothes on. The showers are poolside, too. I've never wondered before if they're trying to cut down on nudity by design. I have noticed men don't seem very comfortable if you go under the shower next to them. If there aren't any other spare showers, that's just tough. I'm usually mostly concentrating on not getting shampoo in my eyes anyway.

Definitely complain to the pool, I take it it was a Council-run one? I'm not totally fond of our unisex changing rooms at our pool but I've never seen anything like that happen there - for god's sake, we're British - you change in your changing cubicle and you don't set foot outside it without at least your cossie on even if the building is on fire! :) (I have no problems with nudity in single sex changing rooms, but even when we had those at the pool you never saw people in their altogether)

They should have been called on their anti-social behaviour in the pool (not by you but by the guards). You see you did what women always do - move over to the side. Try not to get in the way. At minimum the men need to be excluded from the leisure centre if they are known.

We're they grown men? They sound like kids? I wonder why they bothered to go swimming.
I would have probably gone mad or taken the Mickey but dd would have been like yours and not want red me to.
The pool should have done more tbh.
It's certainly made me re evaluate unisex changing rooms, women are very vulnerable in them.

Where are all the MRA/misogynistic types on this thread?!

I can understand that you don't want to be 'that woman' in your small community, but there is quite a wide gap between 'do nothing' and 'report it to the police'. Perhaps discussing the incident with some of the older and (dare I say it) wiser women in your community to come up with a solution that makes your point, but doesn't overtly ruffle too many feathers would be more to your liking?

"Men find it funny that women are made uncomfortable. What men don't then realize (or don't choose to realize) is that where women are made to feel uncomfortable, women will avoid"

That's another lightbulb moment for me, thank you.

Whenever someone argues with me in the future about how it's all only a larf, I'll point out that it's a larf at the expense of excluding women. And in fact, in many cases it's the desired result and if men stand by other men doing this and argue that women are over-reacting, then they are colluding with the systematic exclusion of women.

Once it's pointed out so simply like you've just done, it's so obvious.

Are you feeling better today, Rosa? I was worried for you yesterday. You do whatever you think best reference the police. I wasn't aware you were so rural, but you're probably doing the right thing in not calling the police, especially if you think the dickheads might be tourists. A letter to the leisure centre might be good, no way should their staff member have been subjected to that either.

Oh gawd I didn't mean to put you off! I was just saying what I thought I hope it wasn't my posts that put you off.

Writing to the pool is an excellent idea.

I mean, though, if everyone else says it's what they would do, maybe? Like I say, I have very little confidence in the police so it's me that's probably misjudging not the others.

Definitely write to the leisure centre.

God though, I totally agree with you about men who find it fucking hilarious to make women and girls feel intimidated / embarrassed / scared. And they probably forget about it 20 mins later cos it was just a bit of a laugh and the consequences for us are often more far reaching. Not serious, necessarily, but it impacts on our behaviour and view of the world, every time this happens.

I wonder whether any other women who use those changing rooms have experienced anything similar, and whether they might be prepared to join in action with you?

Agree with seven here. It's not the nudity they is an issue. It's the talking and 'having a lard' they is.
I think it's also to be into context of 5 men who already had pushed the OP and her dd on the side if the pool and took the whole pool for them ie in some ways they have already displayed some intimidating behaviour (even if not so bad you could call the police for that iyswim)

I would report it to the police. The likely outcome of that will be that they will speak to staff at the swimming pool, the management will realise that they should have a policy in place and their staff should adhere to it, if they want to avoid getting into trouble in the future.

Anyone trying to defend this behaviour (and I know nobody on this thread is doing that) needs to think about how an 11 year old girl would have felt if she'd have tried to use the changing rooms alone while this was going on. It's really out of order.

Not trying to put you off BTW! Just thinking out loud stuff around this is so interesting to me how we all react etc.

I think you should def write and/or police 101 as others have suggested whatever you feel you want to do

It's tricky though isn't it as there are cultural issues around nudity and stuff - bear with me here

So e.g. if I was with my kids and we saw a man at a mixed changing rooms with no clothes on who was minding his own business and i don't know nipping out to a locker or something then it wouldn't bother me

I know that would bother other people though.

And of course the main problem with these men wasn't that one had no clothes on it was the sexualised behaviour and talk in a mixed environment. Even if he had had some swim trunks on, the behaviour in the pool and the conversations / laughing with his mates swearing and joking about cocks is a problem.

And this is where it gets difficult as YOU know it's all wrong and I know it's all wrong but when you try and complain about stuff like this often all you get back is prudery / just a laugh / nudity in a changing room what's the prob / banter etc etc and they (whoever) don't take it seriously.

I bet there are some people who would be itching to say OMG you want a man arrested for being nude in a swimming pool changing room!

Not saying that is how specific people who you might tell with this will react but we've all been there where we've tried to explain something that was really upsetting in real life and just been made to feel like you're making a fuss over nothing. It has to me anyway - and by female close friends unbelievably

There is a huge societal pressure and socialisation to ignore / shut up / laugh it off / don't mention it etc.

I would definitely write to the people who organise the changing rooms and suggest that along with the "no running, no diving in the shallow end, no spitting, no bombing" notice, they should add "no indecent exposure in the shared space area".

Then there will be howls of outrage from men who will protest that it would never even occur to them to wave their willy around in public. Though they never complain that it would never occur to them to dive in the shallow end, so those messages should be scrapped.

Hmm.

It's interesting reading the responses as I wouldn't even think of contacting the police for something like this as I imagine they'd laugh in my face. I have had bad experiences with the police (nothing major but still) and don't trust them / have any faith in them so it's me who is probably out of step there.

OP if you do contact the police I would be really interested to see what they say.

Their behaviour was atrocious goes without saying.

Interesting as well that neither you not the female member of staff who witnessed it thought to / felt they could do or say anything at the time - poster upthread who said we are SO strongly socialised to "put up and shut up" with this stuff it's ridiculous. And of course the person who was really shocked was a bloke - another thing that's come up as women and girls don't talk about it and the average man has no idea of the sheer volume of shit the average female puts up with over a lifetime and if you tell one even a fraction of it they are horrified (and find it hard to believe).

Sorry a ramble there.

I think in general - women and girls need to speak out about this stuff more if they can e.g. everyday sexism so the public (ie men) can start to understand just how commonplace and how serious it is.

That is awful, your poor DD. What a lesson to learn as a young woman - to fear and be intimidated by men.

I also think you should call 101 for advice.