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Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

635 replies

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 18:47

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

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LineRunner · 09/09/2014 20:32

OP, then you're woefully lacking in the knowledge (and frankly the skills) for this argument.

Thereyouarepeter · 09/09/2014 20:32

As a man...sigh...hesitantly entering the discussion just to post about female "privilege" under the global patriarchy. What about military conscription? I can't think of a more discreet sexist construct that has killed more people?

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:29

Do you imagine that you're the first to come here and goad feminists under the guise of "challenging" them and helping them out of their comfort zone?

AnnieLobeseder · 09/09/2014 20:28

Also waiting with baited breath to hear what privilege we have.

SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:28

Well it would be nice to limit my discussions to feminist groups but in my favourite one men people keep wandering in and telling me that I'm doing feminism wrong, to STFU and talk about something else.

Funny, that.

You haven't commented on where MRAs stand on the global situation re sexual violence. I would be interested to hear your views not really

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:27

Why do you imagine that I haven't ever posted elsewhere, or even on here, and haven't received threats?

SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:26

What privileges do you think women have around the world?

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:26

Tell me what you mean by women's privileges

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:25

PetulaGordino
SevenZarkSeven

I would never suggest you should do something that put you out of your comfort zone or put your personal safety at risk, so you are of course welcome to limit your discussions to feminist groups. However, given that the suggestion was about an online discussion, I think it's worth mentioning that online anonymity is very easy to preserve, and you'd have no reason to fear for your safety even if the posters are as barbaric as you suggest.

LineRunner

What about it exactly? I'm aware of the news story, but I'm afraid to say that I've not been following it too closely.

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SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:25

What privileges do you want women to give up around the world?

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:20

PetulaGordino
For many issues, I'd agree with you there. But do you think that women also need to give up some of their privileges in order for true equality? Or do you think it's impossible for women to have any privileges in a patriarchy?

SevenZarkSeven
If that's what you choose to define the MRA movement as, then you are quite right to feel threatened by them. That bears very little resemblance to what they actually are, however.

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KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 09/09/2014 20:17

MRAs aren't interested in supporting equality. They're interested in keeping their privilege.

LineRunner · 09/09/2014 20:16

OP, where do you sit (metaphorically) on the Fiona Woolf inquiry?

SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:14

I don't think it would be safe either Petula.

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:13

It wouldn't be a debate and it wouldn't just be "cheap jibes". I would be threatened and my personal safety isn't worth that for your entertainment

SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:12

"Unfortunately I think the division has caused radicalized views on both sides, with the end result that there are lots of misogynists within the MRA movement, and also some misandrists within the feminist movement."

Nope.

Feminists have not become "radicalised" as a response to MRAs. Feminism in various strands has existed for a very long time, as a direct reaction to the often outrageous treatment of females.

The MRA "movement" is the new name for the old story of men who want to keep women "in their place".

HTH Smile

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:11

The fact is that for equality men need to move the fuck over and give up some of their privileges. And MRAs (and many men who don't declare themselves MRAs) don't want to do that

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:11

SevenZarkSeven

Why not be concerned with both? I know I am.

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LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:10

PetulaGordino

I think you should do exactly that! If they choose to respond to a logical and measured argument with cheap jibes, then it should only reinforce your opinion. I think it's important to debate issues with people who hold different opinions, to introduce both them and yourself to new evidence, theoretical perspectives, and lived experiences.

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SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:09

Jesus christ.

Where's that reasonable man picture thingy when you need it.

SevenZarkSeven · 09/09/2014 20:08

Right.

So you don't want me to be concerned about the global epidemic of sexual violence.

You want me to think about suicide instead.

Right. Gotcha.

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:07

AnnieLobesder
I sincerely hope you meet a better class of MRA, because there are those who campaign for the very issues you mentioned. I do recognize a lot in what you said about the abuse and the unwillingness to work with feminists though. Unfortunately I think the division has caused radicalized views on both sides, with the end result that there are lots of misogynists within the MRA movement, and also some misandrists within the feminist movement.

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PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 20:06

What would happen do you think if I went to an MRA forum and told them they were doing it all wrong?

I reckon I'd be in for a heck of a lot more than a few snidey remarks

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 20:03

cailindana
I think you might benefit from going to a 'real' (i.e. not online) MRA meeting, if any exist in your area. Most (though not all) of the men I know who support men's rights activism also support gender equality and have previously campaigned for 'women's issues'.

SevenZarkSeven
I am astounded that you claim to know all these things about me, given that I have not said anything which would suggest that this is the case. To give just one example (though there are many), isn't it in the interest of both women and men to try and reduce levels of suicide? And given that men are far more likely to commit suicide in nearly every society, isn't this a gendered issue and therefore relevant to feminism? Again, the condescension in your post is unnecessary, and adds very little to the discussion.

PetulaGordino
I graduated at around the same time as the name change occurred, so didn't have to make the decision. I'm honestly not sure what I would have done. I'd probably have tried to join both groups (and fight for their re-unification), but as far as I'm aware the women tended to stay in the feminist group, and a significant number of men joined the MRA group (although some stayed with the feminists). I found the whole thing divisive and sad.

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RufusTheReindeer · 09/09/2014 20:01

I just looked up NAMALT and clicked on the first explanation

That was a stupid thing for me to do

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