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Original poster

Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

635 replies

LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 18:47

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

OP posts:
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scallopsrgreat · 10/09/2014 00:15

And men as a class are not oppressed. You have yet to say anything that discounts that. (unless you are talking about being oppressed by other men? But then what's that got to do with feminism? Surely that's the definition of a problem men should be sorting out.)

It is OK for us to focus on women.

Original poster
LaVoixDeLaRaison · 10/09/2014 00:13

Zazzles007
Where have I lied to you? If you think I'm not a feminist, please go ahead and prove it by using any of the comments I've made in this thread. I've been here for hours, so there should be lots of material.

CKDexterHaven
I can honestly say that I have never heard of that site, and after a brief Google search turned up nothing, I'm just as in the dark about them as I've ever been. Is this an actual group, or did I miss a joke?

I don't doubt that people who call themselves MRAs and have founded influential groups have said these things. I never claimed that that was not the case. I could also cherry-pick despicable quotes from certain well-known feminists too. Does all of feminism deserve to be tarred with the same brush? Of course not!

PetulaGordino
When have I derailed anything? I've given my perspective on a feminist issue, and argued my view as a feminist (albeit a seemingly very different one than most posters here). I've also not said that feminists should work for the benefits of men over women. Early on I said that this 'us vs them' mentality was one of my main issues with certain forms of feminism, and simply suggested that we could all work together for the benefit of humanity, rather than focusing on just men or just women. You're welcome to disagree with that, but please don't include me in the same breath as you would people who make rape threats and abuse online. If anything, I hope to improve your perceptions of MRAs, by showing you that I at least also feel it is abhorrent to abuse someone simply because they hold a different opinion.

OP posts:
CKDexterHaven · 10/09/2014 00:11

MRAs are basically the people who think that if rape came to an end, if domestic violence didn't exist, if all people were paid a fair wage and everyone was guaranteed an education, then they would have lost something and had their rights violated.

TravelinColour · 10/09/2014 00:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scallopsrgreat · 10/09/2014 00:10

Men's rights are irrelevant because they have all the rights. You have yet to say anything that discounts that.

Plus again...Feminism isn't about men. I know that's hard that men aren't the centre of the universe in one pocket of society...but hell, suck it up.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 10/09/2014 00:10

Please answer this

Can you ink me to a single MRA forum (or site with comments) where I can observe and engage with non tar brushed activists

Or this
Can you point us in the direction of a MRA website / resource / forum / group which you feel reflects and supports your feminist values?*

AnnieLobeseder · 10/09/2014 00:10

I don't spend much time on MRA forums because, as you have pointed out, they tend to attract abusive misogynists.

And there we have it, folks. Fait accompli, straight from the horse's mouth.

Goodnight.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/09/2014 00:07

Can you point us in the direction of a MRA website / resource / forum / group which you feel reflects and supports your feminist values?

Yes, please. I would find it wonderfully refreshing to find a forum of men whose goals aligned with ours. Like digging the Channel Tunnel - the men start dismantling the patriarchy and the damage is does to men from their end by campaigning for support for men's mental health, and pushing for support for men taking career breaks, flexitime and parental leave to have a meaningful role in their children's lives.

We women will dismantle it from our end, pushing for women to receive equal pay and more access to the boardroom, allowing our partners the freedom to be SAHDs.

Then we meet in some utopian middle ground where both men and women are free to peruse full- or -part time careers in absolutely any field with a realistic expectation of being able to reach the top. Where both men and women are primary carers for their children and each family can make a truly free choice about who works, who stays home and for how long. Where no-one is judged on appearance or denigrated for not being masculine or feminine enough. Where a man can wear a dress or a woman rock hairy armpits without anyone batting an eyelid.

This is the feminist dream OP. Do you honestly know any MRA groups who share it? If so, could you direct us to them please?

PetulaGordino · 10/09/2014 00:05

I didn't say you had made personal attacks. I said that feminists here have direct experience of the unpleasant ways MRAs operate, to a greater or lesser extent, and that your posts here fit into that continuum

Deliberately derailing feminist discussion, demanding that feminists work for the benefit of men over that of women, all that (which you have done here) forms part of that experience of MRA behaviour that is abhorrent. It's at the lesser end of course, but it is included

Stop talking about what women here "believe" about MRAs and understand that we know exactly what they are like, through our own direct experience

Original poster
LaVoixDeLaRaison · 10/09/2014 00:04

JustTheRightBullets
I don't spend much time on MRA forums because, as you have pointed out, they tend to attract abusive misogynists. I'm referring more to groups such as Fathers 4 Justice, Parity UK, and university societies. These groups also attract some idiots (as do all groups), but to me, the core principles that these groups are founded on are sound. I don't think it's useful to view all MRAs in the same light as we view trolls.

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CKDexterHaven · 10/09/2014 00:03

LaVoixDeLaRaison - You have clearly come here to stir things up from the site LaVoixPourLesHommes.

The examples I quoted before were not a question of what I believed but actual examples of the views of MRAs. The guy who talked of smashing women's faces in is the founder of one of the biggest MRA groups. Stop feigning naivety about what these groups believe. They are not campaigning to improve men's lives, they are campaigning for the right to oppress and abuse women.

10 out of 10 for goadiness though, brother.

Zazzles007 · 10/09/2014 00:02

OP stop lying to me, it just shows me your lack of integrity.

Zazzles007 · 10/09/2014 00:01

I've run out of my allocation of pics on MN, and have to go off and do real-life stuff. Happy to come back tomorrow and keep the laughs going though (if the thread is still going) Grin.

Original poster
LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 23:58

scallopsrgreat
If you support a form of feminism that thinks men's rights are irrelevant, then I'm quite glad that you disagree with me. I would never want to hold an opinion like that.

PetulaGordino
Are you suggesting that I've been abusive to anyone on here? I've tried my hardest to refrain from any such personal attacks, even when people were insulting me. To try and suggest that I am in any way like the people mentioned in that post is offensive, and needless to say, inaccurate.

Zazzles007
Genuinely, can you find an example of where I've made a comment which is anti-feminist? As far as I'm aware, I have argued that men and women are oppressed in different ways, and the form of feminism I believe in should challenge this type of oppression wherever it is found. I know it is a form of feminism that you and others here might disagree with, but I hardly think that means I am not feminist.

OP posts:
CaptChaos · 09/09/2014 23:57

This was from the elders of the MRA movement, so you'll excuse me if I don't believe you. Merely favouriting a post about counting dead women seems to deserve a slew of threatening DMs from MRAs desperate to tell women that they are going to find and rape them and their children.

And you women! Stop with your memes! I can't see them on my stupid phone app and it's making me sad! You are oppressing me with your memes.

JustTheRightBullets · 09/09/2014 23:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 09/09/2014 23:56

Those men are not MRAs.

Please, do show me where these men who identify as MRAs, but arent vile and misogynist, are. Please?

CKDexterHaven · 09/09/2014 23:56

What would be the value to feminism of including men who want women to live in concentration camps? Feminists are campaigning for women, they are not campaigning against men.

Anyway, why doesn't the British Heart Foundation do more for brain tumours? Why doesn't the PDSA raise money for children's hospitals? Why doesn't UKIP spend more of its time campaigning for the Socialist Workers Party?

scallopsrgreat · 09/09/2014 23:55

But focussing on men's issues isn't what feminism is about. Men have issues, we know that. We get told about them every single time we want to focus on issues that affect women.

They don't have a rights problem though.

We don't want to waste our energy appeasing men. That is part of what keeps us oppressed. That continual appeasement and sapping of energy.

PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 23:54

As has been repeatedly stated on here, men who genuinely believe in gender equality (including improving the lot of men) don't call themselves MRAs. They tend to call themselves feminists, or feminist allies

But I suspect you know this already

Original poster
LaVoixDeLaRaison · 09/09/2014 23:52

CaptChaos
Again, the things you've stated there are deplorable, and I would hate MRAs too if I thought they were all like that. I'm not talking about those bitter misogynists who identify as MRAs just to abuse feminist women, I'm talking about the men who are genuinely interested in gender equality, and believe that this involves focusing on men's issues as well as women's issues. I'm sorry you've had to deal with so many abusive idiots in your experience of MRAs, but I don't think that's truly representative of the group's serious members.

OP posts:
PetulaGordino · 09/09/2014 23:50

"If you really believe that"

None of us needs to believe. We know because we are on the receiving end of it to a greater or lesser degree, including via your posts here

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 23:50

I identify as a feminist and an MRA

Reading over your posts and comparing it to this statement - I completely doubt that you are a feminist at all. And if you truly still believe you are a feminist, then that shows you do not have self awareness and have not analysed your deeply held values. As an MRA, you have bought into a set of beliefs which intriniscally do harm to to human life and humanity.

scallopsrgreat · 09/09/2014 23:50

x-post. Why shouldn't men rights discussions be met with such opposition? Feminism isn't about men. To coin a phrase on here "it's irrelevant".

AnnieLobeseder · 09/09/2014 23:49

do you really think that the majority of MRAs agree with that?

In a nutshell, yes. Because I have never seen any evidence to the contrary.

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