Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

that's a relief italian (though i'm not sure my own contributions have been that helpful to lurkers!)

i forgot that the audience isn't just goaders rubbing their hands together at the idea of diverting feminists from discussing male violence and other issues

I know.

My head was turned by feminine delights like having a life.

I am wondering why 'homogeneous' is such an insult, though? I don't think MRAs are homogeneous. I just don't give much of a fuck about getting to know their cute little differences.

I haven't read every post but I've read a lot and followed links and found it very interesting and educational to me as a feminist so thank you for those who have posted brilliant points and links.

PetulaGordino re "I bet you have - it's been purely for your benefit and no one else's"

It's beneficial to others reading, honest. I know most of what you are saying is all very obvious but for some of us feminists who don't read as much as we should it is very helpful to get all these links and read loads of helpful stuff.

Please do not feel postings are in vein because others are reading and learning all the time, especially salonmeblowy Feminists are not responsible for educating men

And wazedak re Any evidence of this? I know you're going to reply with that banknote woman we keep hearing about but any other examples?

Anita Sarkeesian.

You're rather late to the party, LRD.

Just marking my place as I suspect this will be amusing, then depressing.

x-post with Annie there.

"But a man experiencing frustration at the burden patriarchy puts on him will turn his hand against his partner and children more often than he will turn it against himself." That is so true. Men do tend to express their anger outwards whereas women turn it inwards e.g. self-harming, eating disrders

"-The achievement gap between boys and girls at school
-The higher number of women than men in higher education"

So what? How is this actually disadvantaging men in real terms? I'm all for education and I think everyone should be able to have access to the best education they can but it isn't actually harming men. They still have the vast majority of wealth, status and power. The only 'danger' is that they may have to share that with women. Welcome to equality. That's what it looks like. Men giving up some of their power wealth and status. Plus as part of the whole picture, one of the key reasons boys aren't doing as well at school (and that is presumably a follow on to why not as many go to university) is because of...guess what...yes...gender stereotypes. Imagine my surprise!

Yes Positive discrimination is a problem...for women. Men have gained an advantage from it for centuries and continue to do so. It's about time women got a slice of that pie.

Male suicide rates. Yeah men need to get on top of that and sort it out.

Earlier average age of death for men. Look after yourselves and stop killing each other.

Here's a thought. We've discussed a few issues that negatively affect men. But have you considered that not one of those issues actually advantages women?

Yes, girls tend to outperform boys at primary level. But it's not as if that translates into better career prospects or higher earning potential for women.

Perhaps more women than men are entering higher education. But this is not because women are being actively selected over men. And see my point above for how this does translate into an advantage post-education.

Some of these issues actually affect women more negatively than they do men.

Men do often get a raw deal in custody disputes in terms of access to children. But the women are the ones who are then left with the huge negative impact on earning potential and logistical nightmare that is single parenthood. Women do not choose this because it's better for them, they do it because it's better for their children and the court (composed mostly of men), agrees.

And finally, yes, hypermasculinity and men not being "allowed" to express emotion in a healthy way may translate into more men successfully committing suicide than women. But a man experiencing frustration at the burden patriarchy puts on him will turn his hand against his partner and children more often than he will turn it against himself.

wazedak's post can be summarised as "spot on, sir!"

So you stay away from MRA forums and spaces, as they are all vile misogynists, but you're sure there are nice ones out there and it's up to women to find them?

there needs to be a serious academic examination of these issues so we can see what they're actually due to.

I agree. So on you go. Or are you, again, expecting feminists to do this for you?

Hey, new guy, wazedak. I think I need to make an Inigo Montoya meme for you too cos you don't seem to understand what patriarchy is.

*"Young men's suicide rates are awful. Why do you think men commit suicide more in the under 35 age groups if it's not because of the unrealistic demands placed upon them by patriarchy?"

Is it really because of the so-called "patriarchy"? Or could it be because men are discouraged from seeking help or expressing emotion? Women are encouraged to seek help if they need it, men are told to "man up".*

Um, yes, that bit about men not being taught to express emotions in a healthy way - that's male socialisation and patriarchy. And has already been discussed on this thread.

The suicide quote was mine. Thanks for pointing out that my thoughts were correct.

I love how people who don't believe the patriarchy exists will then go on to use explanations for societal problems that boil down to "patriarchy"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384735/Twitter-troll-sends-MP-Stella-Creasy-threat-image-masked-knifeman.html

Stella Creasy and Mary Beard.

www.dailydot.com/culture/anita-sarkeesian-ted-talk-misogynist-comments/

There's another one, dude. I'm sure you know that one since you are so worked up on the other thread about Anita's $, I guess you gave them all to her yourself.

Being told to "man up" is a patriarchal construction, dude.

antimisandry.com does not seem to have much about men's rights. It mostly seems to be moaning about women who don't Know Their Place.

Oh, you've read 'Gender Delusions' then. Which parts of Fine's argument do you disagree with?

Oh, how tiring.

Please let me politely answer your initial question, as well as all your subsequent ones, with this link to a brilliant explanation as to why Feminists are not responsible for educating men.

HTH

"Let's get rid of the patriarchy "

And replace it with what? A matriarchy?

"Individual members of the MRA "movement" do however literally threaten individual feminists / groups of feminists with violence,"

Any evidence of this? I know you're going to reply with that banknote woman we keep hearing about but any other examples?

"PetulaGordino Tue 09-Sep-14 21:41:24
What are you doing about global violence against women?"

And why is it the responsibility of the OP? Why are specific individuals to blame for what other people they don't even know do?

"Young men's suicide rates are awful. Why do you think men commit suicide more in the under 35 age groups if it's not because of the unrealistic demands placed upon them by patriarchy?"

Is it really because of the so-called "patriarchy"? Or could it be because men are discouraged from seeking help or expressing emotion? Women are encouraged to seek help if they need it, men are told to "man up".

"if you can find a serious MRA forum, I'd be happy to argue there too."

Try antimisandry.com

"OP Could you please explain the point of the fat shaming week that an MRA group launched on Twitter just over a year ago?"

Were they really an MRA group? Or did you just add those letters yourself?

So in answer to your OP. The MRAs I have come across who comment on fora tend to be abusive , misogynistic dickwads, and you haven't given me this mythical place where there exists a reasonable, intelligent MRA that I can engage with.

In keeping with your username.... Quelle surprise

Thanks for the site. Recommendations. Neither seem to have forums where I can talk to the reasonavle activists.

So a bit of a fail there.