Do you think society (and actually feminist quite a lot) are conspiring to gas light women?

NAMALT is sucH a stupid response. We all know that NAMALT. Nobody is saying AMALT. We ARE saying that EMALT - enough men ARE like that for a lot of women and children's lives to be affected by it. TMMALT.

Sorry my DS re the loos. My DH can take care of himself.

dreaming what do we do about it? Well for one thing, I stand outstide the men's toilets when my DH is in there. I tell my kids if they are approached by someone who seems odd to them, to ask a woman for help. I talk to them about walking in the street and things to avoid doing. I would love to turn off fear but I don't see how ignoring the very real danger is productive in life.

What I want to know is why so many on this thread seem to accept that fear of men, no matter how rational (in the same way as a fear of dogs or cars is rational), is just something to accept and get over. Why aren't we more angry that men are as unpredictable as animals or pieces of metal flying down the road at 70mph?

Why aren't women more angry? Why aren't men more ashamed? Why do we continue to accept this? Why the actual fuck should we have to live in fear of men no matter how well we manage that fear?

I agree with you WhatWitch and this thread demonstrates it. The statistics pointed out on the thread are that 87% of the female victims and 96% of the male victims were killed by male suspects and there are responses saying all people are dangerous (plainly not on the statistics), NAMALT and you have a sad life. This is gaslighting and minimising the danger of male violence against women.

I suppose for me the question is how much we let our feelings dictate our lives.

Is it rational to feel so afraid of men? Perhaps. But the question is, what do we do with that fear? How do we go about our lives with that fear?

I think choosing to avoid men or distrust all men with your children is not a reasonable action (as distinct from feelings). I don't think it's a healthy approach for your children.

Statistically, if you drive every day, you are likely to get in an accident at some point (ranging from mild to deadly). But you still get in the car every day, you even bring your kids in the car. You turn off that fear.

I think giving into the fear of men is counterproductive for your own life.

Yea, I don't think it's ridiculous feeling to have. Especially if your personal experiences have contributed to it. I can see how teaching women to avoid men would be seen as a ridiculous way to live, but I don't think you mean that's literally what should happen. But if you feel that way inside, you're definitely not going mad.

Weird isn't it that we're expected to not get drunk, not wear short skirts, wear 'rape preventing' nail lacquer, not talk to strange men and any of a number of different things to 'prevent' us being raped by strangers. Or men we have met while out. When we know from crime stats that we're more likely to be raped, assaulted, harmed and killed by men we know and trust, children are more likely to be sexually abused by men their parents trust and yet, when someone comes out and says that we should be more afraid of ALL men, that woman is called silly, hysterical and a bit sad and ridiculed. That they are 'playing the victim'

So, women discussing an epidemic of male violence (another woman and her child were killed by her SO today) is silly. You don't know from looking at a man, or even knowing a man for a while whether he will do something awful, so, just perhaps a healthy fear of men isn't as silly, hysterical and sad as it first sounds.

Not all dogs are going to maul your child, but you'd be a careless parent if you didn't instill a healthy regard for the damage dogs can do into a child wouldn't you?

Working, the OP's point is that, whilst she trusts her DH, most DWs married to abusers at one point trusted their DHs (Rolf Harris's wife, to pick a recent example). Just as most people trust their spouses but lots of spouses have affairs. It's not silly paranoia to note that trust may be betrayed.

Femin, my understanding is that lifetime risk of rape for women is c 1 in 4 - where did you get the "most women" stat?

How exactly would you like to see women "step up", WorkingBling?

Ok, sorry, that final comment was unnecessarily sarcastic. But I stand by the rest.

You don't want to engage with me because you can't answer any of my points. You are happy to play the victim but refuse to accept that women stepping up might be useful or that generalising against an entire gender, including your "d"h is not going to solve the problem.

You should make sure you and your daughters don't step out the house, ever. And that your sons are banished as soon as they hit puberty.

Factual statements are fine but remember that you can pick which facts to present to reinforce stereotypes (a classic political tool), so you have to be careful.

WhatWitchcraft I hear what you are saying... how the hell to know which men are NotLikeThat? "Fear all men" is one solution I suppose, but I hope it isn't the right one.

You don't trust your male relatives and think you have good reason? Ok, I am going to assume you do in that perhaps you have seen or experienced things that makes you distrust each and every one of them. But in that case, I would expect you to do more - go to police, warn others etc. If you don't trust them because they are men then I am going to stick with my view that it's incredibly sad and also, sorry, a little bit silly n

Femin, you still haven't backed up that statement. We are all agreeing that sexual assault is a huge issue but I am not buying the argument that almost every woman is raped at some point. I want backed up facts please, not hysteria.

And frankly, what concerns me the most about sexual assault is how often it happens in PUBLIC with no one, including women, objecting. Most of the women I know who have been victims of sexual assault it's usually been at a nightclub (inappropriate grabbing or attempts to get off), on the street (random men commenting on body parts or even just reaching out for a little feel), on on public transport ( masturbating) etc. When my breasts were groped by a man on oxford street I was told by the female friend I was with to stop making a scene ....

Perhaps we should avoid all women too as clearly they can't be trusted.

Statistics are one thing, but aren't generalised comments about a whole gender something we try to avoid? Trust earned on an individual level.