WHO have started making recommendations for 'women of reproductive age'

note to self.... don't start fussing dogs when typing posts, the thread moves on, and you look like a dickhead

It may do, but they aren't saying about the damage to sperm and eggs, they're talking about damage to a foetus.

You are aware that damaged sperm are one of the many causes of some really very nasty congenital problems aren't you? It's not just women who are responsible for being all tip top and ship shape in the gametes department? They aren't talking about damage to a foetus unless that foetus already exists, in which case, they would only be addressing pregnant women, not pre-pregnant ones.

You could put something about anyone engaging in sex that could result in pregnancy blah etc

Just for the less organised amongst us

Oh that's much better Blistory

So the WHO advice should read -

We would caution that ecigs may have a detrimental effect on the quality of eggs, sperm and a growing foetus and anyone wishing to reproduce would do well to be aware of the possible danger and harm that may result from the use of such devices.

Funny how sex doesn't need to be mentioned when you just think a wee bit more clearly.

Bloody keyboard (or crap typing?) 'Framework Convention Alliance'

Ah but blistory it's not in your interest to inhale nicotine, surely, is it? So what's the problem?

Ditto drinking alcohol, frankly.
I have always thought blue cheese mings so that's fine, best avoided.
Coffee and other caffeinated beverages - well they're bad for you anyway. Or are they good for you? Well the jury's out so you're not missing much.
Ski-ing and horseriding, hang-gliding, long distance running and roller-skating are so unfeminine so you won't miss those. In fact most exercise is out really, but meh exercise is rubbish.
Bagged salads are a waste of money.
Also you need to make sure that your weight, blood pressure, mental health and general health are all within optimum ranges at all times between 10 and 50.

That all seems perfectly reasonable to me

This is the minister responsible for thus policy area

Or if anyone who wants to challenge that sentence via a non-governmental route, ASH is also a member of the Cranework Convntion Alliance.

I mean, you know, if we want to be on the safe side.

Huh?

Sub-par sperm can lead to foetal abnormalities and miscarriage. Research is still far newer in this area than on things around the woman and her behaviour, presumably because things are usually the fault of women. But still , there is plenty of research that sub-par sperm cause all sorts of problems.

All men and boys of reproductive age should be cautioned, should they not?

I'm just as unlikely to damage a foetus living and growing inside me. But we are increasingly heading towards a time where I am expected to act as a potential mother for most of my life regardless of the fact that I have rejected that role entirely.

But then society doesn't know what to do with women like me who are capable of reproducing but choose not to. Instead all women must act, not in their interests, but in the interests of a potential person, yet to be conceived never mind born.

It may do, but they aren't saying about the damage to sperm and eggs, they're talking about damage to a foetus.

"I think they don't caution men because men aren't likely to damage a foetus living and growing inside them."

Ah.

But all women between the ages of about 10 and 50 who aren't pregnant or trying to conceive do need to be cautioned on the basis that they are likely to do that? Even if they are categorically not actually going to get pregnant?

I see.

The other way to challenge it, might be via the report which that sentence was based (handily had a footnote): this I've no idea how the US system works though, so don't know if tackling that end would work.

But nicotine damages sperm, so they probably should caution them, if we're giving the benefit of the doubt still.

I think they don't caution men because men aren't likely to damage a foetus living and growing inside them.

I am of reproductive age but can no longer reproduce .

Great minds Blistory

"How do you challenge WHO on stuff like this? "

The paper using this wording emanates from the WHO FCTC (Framework Convention on Tobacco Control). UK is a state party to this, and the next convention is coming up in October this year. I'll see if I can find who leads on UK representation on this, but it's probably somewhere in the Dept of Health.

But I don't know what might be a successful line to take. They want everyone who smokes/vapes to stop, and no-one else to take it up. NHS material also targets women (using actual or possible pregnancy as a lever) but also men for fatherhood and older generation in case the become grandparents. They cast the net wide in the anti-smoking campaign, and some NHS bits could be quoted to look as if they are targeting just one demographic, one just like quoting one of the many papers from FCTC could look as if they was more attention on one group than others.

FCTC papers do not look at anything other than smoking, so are unlikely to be relevant to other WHO work on pregnancy (though of course would inform any measures on smoking and maternal health).

Yes, the Walking Incubators shit is truly amongst us.

x post with Capt

Women of reproductive age do not need to be informed of the risks. Women who are actively trying to conceive or who have conceived should be informed of the risks.

Why the assumption that women will reproduce ? It's this assumption that is harmful . We don't proffer advice to men on how to live their lives to produce optimum sperm at all times. We don't treat all men as potential baby machines and yet their sperm plays a crucial role in it.

Ok Anything, in that case, why didn't they 'caution' men of optimum reproductive age? Or older men? Or, in fact, men?

It's fine to give a group the benefit of the doubt, but this is the latest in a timeline of what people with wombs should and shouldn't be doing, regardless of what they are planning to do with their wombs, iyswim?

There are many drugs that are used with caution in women of reproductive age because of the risks involved. Many women are unaware of their pregnancy during the early stages and no contraceptive method is 100% effective. Modern clinical trials do not routinely include pregnant women, therefore the dangers to this cohort are largely unknown. Nicotine should not be an exception. The advice is therefore entirely sensible.

I don't think they're giving any recommendation or edict that women of reproductive age should do anything at all. They're saying that women of reproductive age should be informed of the risks. That's how I read the verb "to caution" anyway.