Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

Being trafficked and abused is a completely different issue to consensual prostitution, and there is a lot of doubt surrounding Moran's story.

It's a necessity yes, just like any other way of earning money is. I don't know how I'd feel about my child doing this but I do know that it's not all doom and gloom like you make it out to be.

I get what you are saying op too

Of course it is hard for us to face that nice guys we know could do something that we find and thought they were disgusted by

Of course not every group often that are off to Amsterdam or Prague are going to be involved but many many are and it is likely that some of those are nice guys we know the industry is thriving. Saying well know one i know would is separating bad men from good men but yet some men with think are good do

I think rather than thinking only vile/repulse men who hate women use prostitutes we should accept that men do some will be our nice friends and so on. That does not mean you can not trust partners but by putting those that do in a category it puts up a shield that protects the nice men who would not possibly do this but of course many are, some maybe it is a one off on a stag do but they do because we live in a society where it is so ingrained that men have to have sex and because of that need women are happy to exchange money for that service this needs to be challenged by us all

I've heard from them.

Look up Rachel Moran. If only one woman has gone through what she has (!), it's not worth it.

She was forced into this the same as you - but she doesn't defend it. You claimed that it was ok so long as women were 'happy'. Now you say for you it was necessity.

Which is true?

And if it's that you're happy, then how do you stack that up against the suffering other women are going through?

migsy not mighty gosh darned autocorrect.

Will you encourage you child to follow in your footsteps mighty? If not encourage them would you support them if that is what they chose?

How do you know it damages other women?

Selfish, no. I do this to feed/clothe myself and my child. It's a job, like any other. So no i don't feel selfish at all.

migsy - don't you feel selfish, perpetuating an industry you are happy in, that damages other women?

So selfish.

I'm not saying that it is the only reason anyone goes, I am talking about groups of men on their own. The vast majority (not all, I feel compelled to point that out before someone decides majority to mean everyone everywhere) of lads group holidays follow one of two formats, they are focused round an activity or destinations known for cheap booze and cheap women. Not all men on such a trip will go in for such activities but the majority will have gone for that purpose.

Simple fact is stag parties/lads holidays dominate in areas with high levels of prostitution. Either they go for it or they create the demand that brings it. Prostitution is a business, no demand it would not be there.

I've family who live in Amsterdam, they agree with me, it is a beautiful city but huge numbers of tourists are not going for the scenery and museums. They are there for the drugs and sex and it is a blot on the city.

I am a prostitute. I have seen men aged 20-68 in many different professions, bin men to lawyers. Yes most are married and don't even hide the fact and I'd say they were pretty normal and just see paying for sex as a 'hobby', something which is harmless and a bit of fun.

It's so easy to contact escorts/prostitutes, especially with the Internet on everyone's smart phone. And most people I see have taken an extended lunch break or are on their way home, so their other half's are none the wiser.

I don't think it's exploitative as long as the woman is choosing to do it freely and is happy working in the industry. I think you'll never ever end prostitution, it's been around for too long.

I get what you are saying OP.

Obviously, if a woman is vocal about her thoughts on men that pay women for sex, then any man she might discuss the issue with, is not going to admit to it is he? [bar the sort of man that would delight in shocking] particularly if that man is persuing a relationship with that woman.

I would guess that the majority of men that use prosititutes, do so in a clandestine way.

I think that there quite probably are some women, for whom such a thing would be a 'deal breaker', that choose not to ask, as they don't wish to know the truth. I don't think that makes it their fault, or mean that they are complicit as such, but yes, I would agree that some women are in denial about the possibility of the men in their lives using prostitutes.

Those men are easily cut out of one's life, and tbh, citing "but it's a male dominated workplace" is just another appeasement. Sorry, Nicki

That sounds a bit 'victim blamey', or at least making Nicki responsible in some way for the attitudes of her colleagues/former colleagues.

Blaming women for what men do seems to be an issue on all sides of the fence it would seem.

To be fair, I think that the associated tackiness lends itself to stag (and to some extent hen) weekends, much as Blackpool does, rather than, say, Bath. There are deals on, and targeted marketing, but although a visit to a hash cafe and a walk round the red light district are pretty much par for the course, I still don't think most blokes who go actually sleep with a sex worker/prostituted woman. No vested interest personally, btw, but that's my impression from acquaintances.

Well, I can only speak for my own dh and his University friends. They meet up every year for a jolly, they live all over so the venue varies. Amsterdam has featured twice.

I can't know 100% that they're not off for a week of exploiting women and getting stoned but I'd bet my last pound on it. The last Amsterdam trip was five days of beer, museums and cycling. I'm fairly sure dh didn't trip and fall into a prostitutes vagina but I will just double check with him.

I'm sure plenty of men do go for the red light districts but it is pretty offensive to Amsterdam itself to say it's the only reason anyone would ever go.

Yeah, odd how few stag nights happen in Oslo or Stockholm isn't it. You know, if they go for the culture and to experience new cultures and shit.

Anyone who does not think that the lure of places like Amsterdam, especially for groups of men on their own, isn't the sex and drugs is fucking deluded. Other places popular amongst stag groups include Prague and Tallinn, I don't know what came first but both those cities now have serious amounts of prostitution, lots of men either went for the prostitution or created the demand that caused it. It is not difficult to figure it out.

Ah, yes, sorry. I see what you mean now.

I went to Dublin once and didn't drink Guinness.

Saying people only go to Amsterdam for the sex and drugs is a bit like saying people only go to Paris to visit Disneyland.

OP I think what you are saying is along the lines of the male apologist/victim blaming that goes on. Men have needs, they need to let out their frustration, pent up anger, testosterone blah de blah, but bad things don't happen to nice girls. The underlying theme is that men do have a dark side that we should be wary of so we better be 'good.'

I've seen threads like you mention, Amsterdam is a big one, very few MN husbands go for the weed or sex industry. They're the groups of men cluttering up the Rijksmuseum because why else would they go?

CK can I ask what's brought this on?

I hope I don't sound patronising here, but, you seem to be being really negative about women tonight. Has something happened? Can we help?

Gosh, this thread has gone weird.

My ex-husband admitted to using prostitutes. He used the "I can have steak at home but sometimes I fancy a burger" argument. I thought once he met me he'd stop, because I was happy to act like a hooker in the bedroom (no, I don't mean lying there waiting for it to be over). I'm pretty sure he slept with a prostitute a few months before our wedding, and also on his stag night. I still married him. What a fucking mug.

He's an ordinary, wealthy, middle-class, not hideous looking man in a fairly high-profile job. He's just got a vast sense of entitlement and doesn't like women very much. And he's an utterly disgusting, lying, cheating excuse for a human being but I'm not bitter at all.

You are reading a different Mn to me, CK

I was listening to a radio exposé on the human trafficking industry recently, specifically a border town in Mexico where traffickers have decided to focus their activities on sex trafficking as it is lucrative. They interviewed one young girl who had been kidnapped at 15, trafficked to the US and forced to work In a brothel in Queens, NY. She said had to see 30 or more men a day and was often 'booked' out for the day on endless 15 minutes quickies so seeing up to 4 men an hour.

My mind boggled listening to this because I wondered 'who the hell are these men who book 15 minute sessions with a trafficked teenager'?? Guys on their lunch breaks?? Who needs sex that badly?

That's potentially 200+ new 'customers' in a week for the brothel. Some will be repeat business of course but I just couldn't fathom the magnitude of it, especially in this day and age when sex is hardly restricted unlike e.g. 100 years ago. Clearly the demand is out there. I can't envisage any normal guy I know doing this but someone must be...

"Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them."

Omg no! Definitely not. I think most (all?) women hope and pray and try their best to not end up with a man who has that kind of dark side.