Prostitutes - Are Women in Denial About Who Uses Them?

I agree on the point that men who use prostitutes are rapists with wallets.

How would we classify young, attractive women who marry older, rich men? Let's say those men look more like Bernie Ecclestone than George Clooney. Are they in the same class as women who are paid directly for sex?

Still think it's unfair to compare them to rapists? Nope.

They are men who are happy to have sex with someone who they know doesn't actually want to have sex with them

I wonder if they do know that though, many of them probably don't even care as long as they get what they want so probably don't even put that much thought in to it.

JustTheRightBullets I agree, totally! As I said, it just didn't occur to me before you explained it in that way!

JustTheRightBullets Thank you for taking the time to explain it, I hadn't thought of it as the alternative to a beating (which I do know happens, so why that didn't occur to me, I don't know)

How can forced consent ever be accepted as actual consent? The word forced kinda negates the fact that any consent ever existed.

I was trying to mean that someone other than the actual person paying for sex being the one doing the forcing.

I know that forced consent isn't consent, but in most cases, men using prostitutes aren't doing he forcing, are they?

Well aware I am not explaining it very well.

How can forced consent ever be accepted as actual consent?
The word forced kinda negates the fact that any consent ever existed.
Don't you think?

I am interested to know - genuinely - why you would think that men who use prostitutes are rapists with wallets instead of knives. How do you come to that conclusion? Surely it is a consensual business transaction - if the woman in question hasn't been trafficked (and I believe it is a minority who are). I am not being goady. Perhaps I was before and I apologise.

Is this a moral issue for feminists?

Honestly I think there is an interesting and valid conversation to be had around the 'Invisible Men' issue, but not when it's framed in such a goady manner.

You've accused the women you want to have the discussion with of either colluding with or being in denial of their own husbands' abuse of women.

Which is both offensive and stupid.

Anyfucker these men are easily cut out of ones life, and tbh citing "but it's a male dominated environment is just another appeasement" sorry Nicki

Firstly I didn't say "BUT it's a male dominated environment". The use of the word "but" implies some kind of excusing on my part of their actions and that I am choosing to be around men that use prostitutes and thus accepting it.

Secondly, in the army you CANNOT choose not to be around these kinds of people. You sign on for three years and they pretty much own you for that time so you put up and shut up or life can be pretty hellish with no hope of career progression, certainly back when I was in. I could tell you stories of sexual harassment that would make your hair stand on end, however in the forces, back then, it was entirely normal and part of your lot as a woman soldier in the ordinary ranks.

Anyone who does not think that the lure of places like Amsterdam, especially for groups of men on their own, isn't the sex and drugs is fucking deluded.

Really? My dh has also been there, this was while we were dating, a pre arranged holiday with a tour group. No drugs & no sex.

Or am I fucking deluded?

You don't know me, or my dh. he doesn't do drugs/sex workers & I don't do deluded.

Why do you feel you're more important than them? IMO, the people who are suffering most are most important, and I will always prioritize them over someone else who is content. She isn't saying anything that you are accusing her of saying! And by your post, as quoted above, many married women are being raped & abused, does that mean that some can't be content & happy in their marriage, because not everyone experiences that happiness?

Woman & men, in all walks of life, in all jobs are being exploited & yes, abused. Does that mean no one ever is allowed to enjoy a job they do, because are suffering in a similar job?

I think men who use prostitutes are rapists with wallets instead of knives I don't think that is fair. Yes, using a prostitute is not a great thing, in fact it's bloody horrible. The women do consent though, and yes, I know that it probably forced consent (because the girls have someone forcing them to sell themselves) in many cases, due to them not having a choice, but surely it is a step too far to label all those who do use prostitutes as rapists?

But I am happy to be educated on that aspect, if someone thinks the same as the op.

Do some women, and I'm not just talking about third-wave feminists here, feel an unspoken relief at the idea of there being an underclass of 'sex-workers' soaking up men's darkness and frustrations so the legitimate, nice women only have to deal with socially acceptable side these men choose to show to the world. They don't really like that someone is doing it but mostly they're glad it's not them.

Your posts are very antagonistic, even if you don't mean them to be..

Suggesting that the partners of those using prostitutes are OK with their dp/dh taking out their frustrations on another woman? So now women view prostitutes as some kind of emotional and/or physical punch bag & that is OK as long as their dp/h doesn't bring that abuse home? Bloody hell!! That is a pretty shitty generalisation & very insulting too! To both sexes!

"normal" men - what are abnormal men?

"legitimate, nice women" - implying those who sell sex are neither legitimate or nice? It would be a good idea, I think, to remember that the majority of sex workers do not want to be doing what they are doing, but regardless of whether or not it is their choice, they are STILL women & still capable of being legitimate & nice!!!

And no, that woman's husband might not be going for prostitution but there are so many that do. Of course, but that doesn't mean you are allowed to accuse MY dh of doing so, whether you throw that accusation towards HIM personally, or whether you lump him in with the minority of mankind. If I had posted about him going to Vegas & someone DID suggest that was why he was going/what he would be doing when he got there, I'd be pretty pissed at the assumption that my dh was in that minority.

My utter belief that he would not do such a thing is not from me putting my hands over my ears & going 'la-la-la, I can't hear you' OR because it's such a difficult thing to confront?. OR because I have an acceptance of porn/prostitution It is because I know, without a doubt that he would NOT do it.

Male approval is the most important thing To whom? or is that another massive generalisation?

So are you suggesting that because my dh went to Las Vegas recently, he used prostitutes?

Because you couldn't be more wrong.

I know men do use prostitutes, but your op seems to imply that men holiday-ing alone, or with male friends, to any of those cities must be doing it for the prostitution.

Quite a huge generalisation.

perhaps what makes it a touchy subject is that posts worded like your seems to imply that every man uses them at any opportunity.

Denial? Not sure. AFAIK in most of the western world 5% of men at least once in the last month, another 5% in the last year and up to another 10% at least once during their lifetime (made up of 5% who have already done so and an assumption that a further 5% will do so some time in their future). Cant google up a ref though, lies damn lies and statistics and all that, its just figures that seemed to gel for me through doing a lot of reading and it would probably vary between countries quite a good deal.

"Women silence each other on this issue and that is part of how the men stay invisible."

So just by disagreeing with you on a forum, I am somehow subjugating women? Don't think so.

That's the nub of it, nooka.

This seems a really odd board to be having this argument on because I would very much suspect that it is those that regularly post on this board that are also the ones who are suggesting that 'Nigel' and his gang jetting off to Thailand or getting drunk in Amsterdam are quite possibly going to be up to rather more than might be suspected.

None the less plenty of people visit Amsterdam because it is a fun place to visit (I enjoyed a few days there with dh, dd and ds and the red light district wasn't on any of our itineraries) and most men do not regularly abuse prostitutes or watch violent porn. Growing numbers do, and that's a big problem, but that doesn't mean every man should be considered an abusive shit.

Of course there are 'nice' men who do horrible things, including rape and abuse women, they are just very good at hiding that side of themselves. It's not because women are somehow colluding or deluding themselves, it's because they are very good at hiding that side of themselves because generally it's not socially acceptable to broadcast that you are a misogynist, abusive shit.

But I don't think men do routinely participate in prostitution: it is a fringe activity.

The porn thing is a fair way down the scale, I'd say, and while I'd agree that more extreme stuff has been mainstreamed (and I find that worrying and disturbing), I still think that the blokes of my generation in healthy respectful relationships would find the leap from their memories of wanking to the lingerie section of the Littlewoods catalogue to 'Anal Cumsluts Go Wild' to be a bridge too far, and it's not really likely that a bloke who has long grown out of a habit of furtive masturbation will suddenly take up that sort of internet entertainment, any more than he'd be likely to start swapping Minecraft codes.

So much as I dislike the proliferation of misogynistic internet pornography, I still don't assume it's a given that mature men I'd give the time of day are racking up their credit cards in an obsessive fit of priapism. It just isn't the case.