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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So, not everyone's a feminist

205 replies

Vivacia · 18/08/2014 10:37

Plasterer arrived today for the first of four days. I am working from home but everyone else is out.

So far we've had,

"You're not one of these modern women are you?" - don't know, not sure what that means.

"Are you a feminist?" - "Of course I am, aren't you?".

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AskBasil · 29/08/2014 13:43

"Interesting that some men become so angry and personally attacking, not even when they are turned down but when a women turns down another mans attentions."

God yes, they have so much personal identification with another man who harasses women, don't they?

Normal men of course, think these men are dicks. The devil's advocates don't because they are these men too and they see themselves in the tossers.

Vivacia · 29/08/2014 12:23

Update

The work ran over on to Saturday in the end. DP was home all day and our plan was for him to have all interactions, which he did. Predictably the plasterer was a lot less chatty with him. And he didn't make any comment on the attractiveness of his eyes.

I think they got off on the wrong foot early on though:
Plasterer, "Your missus let me down, she doesn't make cups of tea".
DP, "Neither do I".
Plasterer, "..."

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Vivacia · 29/08/2014 12:21

Coincidentally, I read that book when I was a teenager, or perhaps an earlier edition. It has simple, strong messages that I've remembered a good many years later. I think it was one of the factors which meant I didn't feel I had to be polite. Still not great I had to hide.

Good summary of the thread Kristina.

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KristinaM · 29/08/2014 11:24

Someone on MN recommended this book, which I'm just reading

www.amazon.co.uk/The-Gift-Fear-Survival-Violence/dp/0747538352

The subtitle is " survival signs that protect us from violence "

The central thesis is that we instictly know when someone thing in someones behaviour isn't right, that our intuition send us signals to be wary .

But we don't listen to ourselves because we think that there isn't anything in the the persons ( usually a man) behaviour to explain the alarm we feel . The author argues that we need to learn to trust our instincts and learn what risk looks like .

There are too many people telling women the opposite . So we end up in the crazy situation of a women barricading herself inside her own home for several days , paying the man who is harassing her and all because she needs some work done on her home

While at the same time we have another poster telling her she has no right to feel anxious because she has a university degree and drinks the wrong sort of tea ( ie she is a stuck up bitch who doesn't have the right to refuse any man )

It's just more male entitlement isn't it ? The plasterers desire to have a bit of sexual banter and a cup of tea trumps her need to feel safe in her own home . And the reason she objects to it can't possibly be that it's threatening and inappropriate and unprofessional -oh no, it must be because she's a snob

< invitation for Op to justify herself and her background to random male poster >

< random male poster tell her that her background doesn't meet his approval >

Interesting that some men become so angry and personally attacking, not even when they are turned down but when a women turns down another mans attentions.

nowehud · 29/08/2014 01:14

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SevenZarkSeven · 23/08/2014 18:39

aw there's only 5 on there for the whole country! that's a shame

SevenZarkSeven · 23/08/2014 18:37

going to use the link upthread to look for a female electrician Smile

EmpressOfBedlam · 21/08/2014 18:06

Bliley he is interesting isn't he.......

Vivacia · 21/08/2014 17:15

The avoidance is working, I think. This morning we had,

Me: "So, if you have everything you need, I'll leave you to it"
Him: "Well, you don't make cups of tea do you".
Me, retreating to behind barricade: "No".

Apart from that it's been him telling me about vari-focals, cowboy-builders, a mate's dog that likes to lick the plaster dust off his arms and how many screws he's used (not a euphemism).

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EmpressOfBedlam · 21/08/2014 17:02

Any nuggets of wisdom from your plasterer today OP? Hopefully you have managed to avoid him...

UptoapointLordCopper · 21/08/2014 09:48

I haven't read everything so I don't know if anyone has posted - I saw this Women and Manual Trades website. Not used it but will probably consider it if I need work done.

Our local garage people are all polite and friendly and no-nonsense and just go through lists with you. It feels very much like a policy-thing - we will all talk like this to all our customers - but I like it.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 20/08/2014 20:32

Wow an eye opening thread, not the original post but the erm, ensuing debate.

SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 16:41

I htink the contruction one came about to stop wolf-whistling and all the rest of it so surprised it doesn't mention it.

I haven't seen / heard a builder make a comment / shout at etc a girl/woman on the street for years so that's good I HATED it so so much.

Maybe the stress of holding it all in means when they get a female client it spews out all over the place?

Vivacia · 20/08/2014 16:34

I've seen those signs and similar Floccinaucinihilipilificate and been aware of the lack of leering and comments. I think they're a Good Thing.

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Vivacia · 20/08/2014 16:32

But what are we after? "Don't be a creep?".

I wonder if some kind of positive mention would be a good thing?

I wasn't falling over plasterers to find this one. One I did turn down, who quoted half the price for the job, I turned down because he made two comments along the lines of me checking with my "other half" and getting his say-so to book him.

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Floccinaucinihilipilificate · 20/08/2014 16:31

I've seen signs up on building sites about the Considerate Constructor Scheme and always thought it was about reducing sexual harrassment from building sites etc. But it doesn't actually mention it in the blurb. Perhaps it supposed to be implicit in Respecting the Community?

It could be extended to tradesmen maybe?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 20/08/2014 16:28

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PetulaGordino · 20/08/2014 16:24

yes it's a sad world where an award is required for "we won't patronise or sexually harass women"

i think it would need to be industry-wide codes of conduct with something like the kite mark

Vivacia · 20/08/2014 16:13

A google is bringing up a lot of Australian responses.

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Vivacia · 20/08/2014 16:11

I'm sure a nearby garage has one. Actually, it might not be an award, more a promise. I thought it was a good idea and well-worded. Perhaps the logo was of a female silhouette, but the wording was along the lines of plain-talking, being polite etc.

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 20/08/2014 16:09

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PetulaGordino · 20/08/2014 16:02

there is a "services" section on MN local which includes reviews of local businesses

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 20/08/2014 15:59

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SevenZarkSeven · 20/08/2014 15:48

"If you appreciate high quality plastering work with a dose of sexual harassment then this is the tradesman for you. My smooth walls were marred only by comments about online pornography and being able to fuck what you like, etc etc."

This is a very good point. Are there sites where women can recommend etc? Could you get into trouble posting a review like that.

Vivacia · 20/08/2014 15:12

Some of your comments have really made me laugh, thank you everyone.

Things have been miles better today by me being a lot less friendly, a lot less available and blocking myself at this side of the house. I have a chair up against the door.

Good idea about me giving a time limit. The problem is I just want the job finished as soon as possible, even if it means him working late. Of course by about 5pm everyone else is home anyway.

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