Why the fucking fuck is that rapist Ched Evans being released anyway?

Yes, I have been to many football matches. I found the behaviour of people in the stands to be fascinating. Perfectly normal, unassuming people turn into baying animals. Sexist, racist, baying animals. They aren't their to watch a game at all. Not quite seeing what my attendance or otherwise means in relation to your acceptance of misogyny in football though?

And no, it's not a circular argument, it is a singular one about whether or not the institutional misogyny and racism within the football community is a good thing, and it's not.

Let's not forget that the EDL came about due to racist football supporters.

That argument can continue forever. Surely you could say the same About Tesco if they employ people with convictions of violence against women. Or if someone is unemployed and getting government assistance does that mean the government are sexist.

Does it only apply to football. Golf? Cricket? Handball? Darts? Bankers? Cleaners?

I've just mentally gone through the normal chants that my club sing. Not one has a hint of sexism. Granted some individual people shout sexist, racist, homophobic things. They are in the minority in my experience.

Just wondering if you go to football, and what you're experience is in the stands.

If your club signed him, Mengog, what would you do?

You don't understand why playing people who have convictions for violence against women might be seen as sexist? In your desperation to continue with the status quo in the sport you claim to enjoy, you're prepared to not only overlook the misogyny on the pitch, but also your support of that misogyny on the terraces.

nice

When you refer to that side of the game, is that my reference to drama and clannish nature. If so, I don't understand why it's misogynistic or sexist. It what made football the most popular sport in the world.

Like I've said. In terms of Ched Evans - I wouldn't want my club to sign him but if a club wants to, then its there call. The paying public will vote with their feet and wallets.

Mengog well therein lies the problem. Your enjoyment of that side of the game includes deeply ingrained and borderline mysogynistic attitudes. I don't believe they have to be essential to that side of the sport, and I'm afraid rightly or wrongly an ambassador for our very cultural identity. Therefore it has to be held to higher standards.

Unless you are arguing that the sexism is an inherent part of the sport and a source of enjoyment. Of course you have not come out and said that, but if that is what you feel might I suggest this is the wrong forum to be posting. If you don't feel that way I challenge you to do something about it.

Mengog

About his sentence being too light - its noteworthy to think that had Chedwyn pleaded guilty from the off, he'd already have been released on licence by now, as he'd have been given credit for an early guilty plea - it's usually set at a third off.

Cadno

That 'unfortunately I will defend my team's players for major indiscretions' bit makes no sense.

You make it sound as though you are powerless to have a different opinion. You're not. If it's unfortunate then don't do it. Hold your players to account: and not just for the number of assists or accurate passes.

Be better than that: then maybe you can pass on the message to those around you that violence against women, and other 'major indiscretions' matter.

It's not that I think he should be banned from football as such.

It's that I think his crime should be viewed as so repellent that no decent person or club wants to associate themselves with him.

If his old club want him back then it doesn't change what he did or make it okay. Whilst it doesn't change what he did it does shape attitudes towards what he did. The club will be saying that his crime was acceptable on a level that they still want to keep him employed. That is a minimising of his actions down from major crime to 'major indiscretion' to use your words. It sends a message and it isn't a positive one to rape victims.

Basil, I wouldn't defend anyone committing a violent crime. It's about debating the level of punishment.

I don't believe in the death penalty for murder, it doesn't mean I agree with murder or defend it.

I Think Ched Evans sentence was too light but I don't think he should be banned from football.

Unfortunately, much like all football fans I will defend my teams players for major indiscretions and castigate opposing team players for minor ones.

I don't care about the personalities or celebrity, it's all about what they do on the pitch.

The drama and the clannish nature is what help makes the game great. It creates the brilliant atmospheres and the myriad of emotions that watching a match brings.

You contradict yourself Mengog.

Have fun supporting wife beaters, rapists and violent criminals. If Evan's old club want him back, it says that being convicted for rape doesn't matter, that violence against women doesn't matter, what matters more than women is kicking about a few pounds of air and leather.

The drama and clannish nature of gladiatorial bouts was what apparently made them great too, maybe we should revive those as well?

I don't care about the personalities or celebrity, it's all about what they do on the pitch.

The drama and the clannish nature is what help makes the game great. It creates the brilliant atmospheres and the myriad of emotions that watching a match brings.

Evans behaviour is sickening and disgusting. If his old club want him back then it doesn't change what he did or make it okay.

Womens football or anybody playing below professional level.

I thought it was a second hand car sales place, obvs high end, not yer actual delboy type.

Any company which has a social media presence can be picketed.

"Football won't change because no one really wants it to"

No, football won't change because no one with any actual influence really wants it to

Well Mengog I wouldn't consider you a football fan in the truest sense of the word. Sure you support your team, but it doesn't sound as if your primary love is around the game itself. Far more in love with the celebrity, the personalities, the clannish nature and the drama of it all than of the actual sport itself.

If you loved the game this player's behaviour would sicken you, you'd feel sick to your stomach you are some small way complicit in a culture that allows this sort of thing to stand.

I would define someone who really loves the game itself as someone who trains hard for a fraction of the pay and acclaim yet still gives their all to it. Kind of like any woman who plays at a high level for example.

Then, with the greatest respect, you're just as bad as the SUtd fans that want their rapist back.

The status quo will be accepted until the paying public and/or sponsors demand change.

Unfortunately, much like all football fans I will defend my teams players for major indiscretions and castigate opposing team players for minor ones.

Liverpool fans booed the player abused by Suarez and Chelsea fans booed Anton Ferdinand and his brother.

Football won't change because no one really wants it too.

So why accept the status quo?

Do we just sit here chatting about what a bunch of common criminals they are, or do we do something about it?

Unfortunately Basil the last two people who were found guilty of on pitch racism are; the current player of the year and now 3rd most expensive player of all time and the captain of one of the best clubs in the country.

Racism, sexism, rape and probably murder can and will all be forgiven in football, as long as the money roles in.

or rather, telling the convicted there are no grounds.

I'm not sure where this speculation that CE has a case to argue, because he has referred to the CCRC. It may not surprise anyone to know that the largest single group of offenders (by offence) are sex offenders who deny outright they did anything wrong. The actual success rate of these cases are utterly minimal, and usually ones where the trial was pursued outside of the glare of publicity.
I think the last numbers I saw anyway were 15,000 referrals, with about 100 successful appeals at the Court of Appeal.
Also, IF I were running an 'independent investigations' co. I wouldn't be turning down potentially lucrative gain by reviewing the evidence and telling an accused there is no grounds. But then I'm just an old cynic.